Nov. 1, 2022

A Candid Conversation About the ApHC with Heather & Tony


Heather and I sit down and talk about our observations of the ApHC since we have been members. We have seen it from a few different angles, as Non-Pros trying to do it ourselves, as Non-Pros with a trainer, as a Stallion Manager, and now as Non-Pros trying to bring along a young stallion. We invite people to comment and to get involved with the discussion.
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Appaloosa: More Than Just a Color Breed. Is a podcast dedicated to showing the world the versatility and adaptability of the Appaloosa horse, as well as the people devoted to preserving and enhancing this outstanding breed.
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#Appaloosa #AppaloosaPodcast #AppaloosaMedia #ApHC

Support the show

Appaloosa: More Than Just a Color Breed. Is a podcast dedicated to showing the world the versatility and adaptability of the Appaloosa horse, as well as the people devoted to preserving and enhancing this outstanding breed.
https://www.appaloosapodcast.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyZ4aNAE2Xogi7xsQZpgoQQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/appaloosapodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/appaloosapocast
Website: https://www.appaloosapodcast.com/
#Appaloosa #AppaloosaPodcast #AppaloosaMedia #ApHC

Transcript
Intro:

Welcome to Appaloosa More than just a Color Breed, a podcast dedicated to showing the world the versatility and adaptability of the Appaloosa horse, as well as the people devoted to enhancing and preserving this outstanding breed.

Tony Bottoms:

Hey, this is Tony, host of the Appaloosa Podcast. Before we get started, I wanna let you know if you can't watch this entire video, you can always go to appaloosa podcast.com. And there you can find our previous videos, our podcasts, our social media links, everything you need to know about the Appaloosa Podcast. And while you're there, go ahead and follow the podcast and it'll alert you every time we have a new one that comes out. So let's go ahead and get into the show. Hey everybody. Welcome to Appaloosa podcast. I'm your host, Tony Bottoms, and I'm here today with my wife Heather. And we're gonna try to maybe do this once a week, maybe every couple weeks. I don't know. And it's just she and I sitting down talking about things that we've observed and things that we've seen and we, we got a lot to say and we really don't have a forum to say then. So we figured we'd take this and. Make it a form, but we wanna invite you also to make comments and maybe we can turn this, we can go live with it sometime and have people in and stuff like that. But to give everybody a forum to talk about stuff that they see that they want to talk about and stuff like that. So there's a lot we've seen in our few years we've been with the club and no one's talking about it. So I mean, we talk about amongst ourselves, but we don't really get a chance to talk about it with other people or, or in a form where something can be resolved for it. Theyhow say, Hi, Heather. Hi Heather.

Heather Bottoms:

Um, Is there, Go ahead. Go. So I get, I get frustrated like with the aph, um, for progress page that if someone posts something that is, Constructive criticism of the club. And I don't mean complaining, I legitimately mean constructive criticism, that it's instantaneously shut down as you're being negative. And we shouldn't put that out there. And we should only tout the positivity of the club. And the reality is, whether it's horses or people or apple horse clubs or anything else in this world, nothing is perfect. And if we can't talk about it, we can never resolve any issues. And I think the better presentation for our club to bring in new people is, yeah, we have problems, but you're allowed to have a voice and you're allowed to talk about it. And we talk amongst ourselves and, um, you can see what the general consensus is because shutting people down is just the equivalent of sweeping something under, under the rug.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I mean, I kinda see where some people are coming from with, they want it to all be roses on the, the, the public facing page. But is that reality? Is that a bait and switch? Is that a false hope of somebody seeing something on a Facebook page and like, Oh, look, they're, they're all getting along and everything's rosy and all that, and then they get in the club and they find out that it's not that way. I mean, you, you and I have witnessed quite a few people here recently are going away from the club and doing things outside of the club, us being included, that there's a lot of people going away from it. That's not, roses are all, It's not all roses because if it was, then people wouldn't be leaving. Right?

Heather Bottoms:

I mean, you can, you can paint the picture all you want. It's not the reality. Right? The reality of this situation is that we have to have the tough conversations that people just don't wanna have, and the truth has to come forward. People continue to hide from what the real issues are because nobody wants to call it out. And they're in fear of retribution on, uh, their horses if they show, or their breeding program, um, or themselves individually, which is, that to me is absolutely insane that people are afraid of that, that, that they are afraid that they legitimately cannot enjoy their horses on a fair and even playing field because they choose to have a voice in something. Um, and I, I don't know what can be done about that. I can tell you when we came to the club, um, which, what has been five or six years ago now? Yeah. Something like that. I mean, I, I, I had an appaloosa and I was, uh, 18, but you know, you weren't in the club, right? Well, he wasn in the club, but yeah. I mean, I wasn't really, But the, the reality is, um, we came in pretty excited. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, like we, we wanted to jump in the pool and swim and, and you know, get to know everybody. And I mean, we've talked about it many times previously, but we had a hunter barn in Virginia and it's where I grew up and I can't tell you how many horse shows that I showed and competed against some of my very best friends in the world and. Yeah. I mean, we sat on the edge of the, uh, the arenas and we joked and laughed with each other. And then when it's time to go in the class, it was, Ooh, I'm taking you down today. But in the end, everybody just cheered everybody on and everybody's success was everyone's success. And I don't see that in the Appaloosa horse club. Yeah. I see it on, on a small scale. Yeah. Like, uh, like I cheer my friends and my friends cheer me. Right, Right. But I don't see that across the board. I continue to see in the upper echelons the same people, Pat and each other on the back.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. They might let somebody who's smaller in for a season and they'll pull that one person in for a season, celebrate them, and then push

Heather Bottoms:

small so they, they can say they did it. Right. And if, and if that's not the case, if that's, if it's not supposed to be, So they can say they did it. Let's just put it this way. That's certainly what it looks like. Right? Right. Um, because you hear about that person as the breakout, um, novice or non-pro at world, and then boom, you never hear from 'em. You never hear about 'em again. Yeah. Right. But then, but the other same people are constantly talked about. Right. And you know, like what you and I talked about in the car today, the real backbone of our club is our horses. Right. Our horses and our horses have contributed more to the financial backbone of this club than any person individually ever could. And it doesn't matter if it's a mayor, a gelding, or a stallion, because we've all. We're showing at some point invested in the new saddle or even the use saddle or the farrier, the vet, the trainer, the, the stall fees, whatever it may be. But, and then look at, look at the mayors and the stallions for breeding programs. I mean, put the name on any stallion that you want. It doesn't even have to be what they tout as the big stallions. These horses are the horses that are putting babies on the ground year after year after year. And it's these babies that are being sold and people are purchasing and showing or doing the, the trail rides with. Right. And um, they are the backbone of the club. They are where the money comes from and they're consistently ignored.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. If you think about the stallions and the mayors that. You know, you got one stallion or one mayor. You know, obviously stallion can produce more offspring than the mayor, but you have all those offspring to get produced. So that means a majority of them are probably going to trainers, particularly if they're a high profile stallion or their stallion is done well, they're going to trainers. So then like you said, you got the farriers and you got the show clothes, you got the saddles, You got the regional clubs. The regional clubs. Yeah. Cause you gotta qualify. So yeah, one stallion can contribute. Who knows how much money,

Heather Bottoms:

right? I mean, I think if they ever sit down and did an impact study, what they would see is the true backbone of the club. Is there stallion is there Is is all of their stallions, Not the few that they choose to highlight Every single. Contributing stallion in the club is in fact the backbone of the club. Well,

Tony Bottoms:

according to everything that we've heard is they don't want to pick one stallion out and highlight one

Heather Bottoms:

stallion. Right. That whole it's favoritism thing. Right. Which, um, I'm not ever going to make this a discussion about any stallion that we stood. Right? So I will say how ridiculous that they have a stallion in their club that received international acclaim outside of the club, Right? That could have been used as a catalyst to promote new interests in our club. But instead the line was, we don't want to show favoritism to any one horse. And how is that favoritism to a horse rather? Than what that one horse can help bring to the club. And not just that one horse, any of them. Right. I mean, there are reigning horses that are out there right now defying the odds at over 15 years old still competing against solids. Right, Right, right. And getting the job done. And I bet over half the members right now listening to this don't even know the name of that stallion. Right. And isn't that a

Tony Bottoms:

shame? Yeah. And in if, if you think about any other industry, horse industry, like let's, let's, let's talk about racing, talk about racing. Her brs promote secretary. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Jockey Club promotes man of war. Right. Jo, You know, their Triple Crown winners, they promote

Heather Bottoms:

Barro, right. Bar. Yeah. I mean you're, you're, you're, you're singing their praises all over the place. Right? Right.

Tony Bottoms:

So in jockey club's got a lot of money behind it, and so one of

Heather Bottoms:

the most efficient registries run in the world. In the world. That's another topic. Yeah. . Yeah. I mean, you know, when you can get done in the Jockey Club in 24 hours without paying additional fees Right. Should make every other club in the world.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. I, I think, I think Arabs are probably pretty close to that, from what I understand. They're pretty, pretty

Heather Bottoms:

close. Well, I, yeah, but I'm just saying, wow. I mean, if you look at the, but the size of the Arabian Club versus the size of the Jockey Club, I'll tell you still, I mean, yeah. The Jockey Club is quick at more than just their horses running down the road, is what I'm gonna say. Uh, they, they, they are on. But

Tony Bottoms:

a lot of people will say that that's because there's a lot of money behind

Heather Bottoms:

that. Well, there's a lot of money behind it because they promoted it to be the case. Right. They, you know, they, they grab what they have and they highlight it and, and they're not afraid to use it. Yeah. And it's, it's not about preferential treatment to a stallion. As a matter of fact, what they choose to see is our, We do the American and Thoroughbred better than anyone else in the world, and we're gonna let you know that. And here

Tony Bottoms:

they are. Right. And I guess the way they look at it too is if your horse made it to the Triple Crown one, the triple Crown, we are going to promote that because that's what we're about. So, Yeah. I mean,

Heather Bottoms:

and, and of course Secretariat is a great underdog story, and who doesn't love an underdog story? Right. But the, the whole reality is we can't be afraid to utilize what we have as a club. And you have to dismiss this preferential treatment idea because we need to look at ourselves as a cohesive whole. We can't say, Oh, that's a Western pleasure thing. That's a halter thing. That's a, it's a hunter thing. And that's a ranch horse thing. No, we're a club. It's not just the Chief Joseph Trail Rod. They are part of us as well. We should know their names. They should be in our magazines. We should be featuring them just as regularly as we are anyone else. Period.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. Period. Well, it's like we just finished the distance horse, um, championship. Um, and I think I saw a blurb on it in the whatever journal or on the website. I, I can't remember, but you know, last year we had an appaloosa one. Not just the Appaloosa distance horse championship, but won it for the entire nation beat the Arabian A ha. Well, it was a half Arabian but beat everybody. And I think I'm the only one that was talking about it. You know, I think there might have been a blurb on it. You know, there are

Heather Bottoms:

spot my Blue Boy babies that are showing in, in the hunters, the regular hunters and winning on a regular, consistent basis. And we don't hear about that. Um, because for whatever reason the hunters aren't something to be recognized. Um, if we're not ranch riders, Western pleasure or halter, where's the consideration

Tony Bottoms:

given? Well, I think the idea behind that is, Apples is a stock breed. So it's more about cattle and all that?

Heather Bottoms:

No, what what, what we promote is that it's a versatile breed. Right? So if it's a versatile breed, it can do it all should be able. Yeah. And, and we should be highlighting it all. Not the stock horse portion, but in fact the versatility of our breed, the adaptability of our breed, the fact that our breed can excel at anything that we, that we put them to that that's the, that should be the seller. I mean, I came to Apples because I love, I genuinely love Appals. Right? I mean, and I, you looked at me like we were, I was kind of crazy when I told you, but I mean, you know, I, I had one when I was 18 and, and this is what I'll tell you. And you know, it's funny cuz this is the perfect example. Um, when I was 18 showing regular hunters, I had an appaloosa and what a backlash to walk into the arena with a blanketed app, you know, uh, It just wasn't, it was unheard of. You, you had grays, bays and chest nuts. You didn't go in with sparkles. I mean, you certainly didn't do that. But I mean, my boy, you couldn't touch him over fences. You could not touch him over fences. He was phenomenal. And, and regular hunters you have, the way that the classes are, is you have two over fences and a hat class. And so I won the over fences classes. I could lose the hat class all day long. Right. And I, I still win. And, and, and that's what we were judged on, right? I mean, look, there's politics and every sport that exists. So I, you know, our industry isn't gonna be excluded from that. It, it simply is what it is. Um, but again, even in the regular hunters, the politics came into play in the hat class. And my boy moved like a plow horse. You know, I mean, he did not look good, but he could jump. And so as long as I could go in and put in two pretty rounds, it was pretty hard to deny us. I mean, it just was right. Um, and I don't see that kind of equality on a regular basis in our show venues.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, and then where you grew up, a nobody could come in and sweep the whole class. Absolutely.

Heather Bottoms:

Could sweep all the two. And, and I want it to be said, I'm from Virginia, I'm from the heart of the, the USF country. I mean, we middleburg Virginia. That's, that's where it was born and bred. I mean, my horse was born and bred in Middleburg, Virginia. I showed in Middleburg, Virginia. This was the big time. I mean, at the time that I grew. It was before Rodney Jenkins was bands, but, uh, Rodney Jenkins was right down the road. Katie Monahan Perdon right down the road. I mean, some of the biggest names in the country were right where I was. I mean, our Olympic writers were right there. And you are right. Even in that kind of, it's a who's who of the, who's. You could be a nobody and go in and get your job done if you did your job

Tony Bottoms:

right? If you had the horse and you could ride, you could just walk in and sweep to class. And you don't see that in the breed shows. You might see it more on the regional level, but going to world or whatever. Everybody who's winning, I'm not gonna say everybody who's winning, but a majority of the top three are the same names over and over and over again. Right.

Heather Bottoms:

And I think, you know, so much is lost on like, uh, the public forums on Facebook and stuff because you can only say so much. Uh, It's left to somebody's interpretation of how it is you're trying to deliver your words, right? It's the same thing as a text. It's just a horrible medium. Um, but the reality is it comes off sounding like, um, sour grapes towards trainers. And I, I have no issue with any trainer. I think they deserve to make a living. I think they have a huge contribution to our club and I want to see them all stay in business and all be successful. I want the app club to be successful. What I don't want is the same names over and over and over and over again, right? And I don't mean to pick a different name for the sake of picking a different name. I'm saying when, when that nobody's horse out shows a somebody's horse, it should win. It should win, period. It just should because that's what it is we're supposed to be promoting. Right, Right, right. Um, fair inequality. And that's what we, we should strive for at all times when we should recognize the best horses that we have to offer. And sometimes the best horses we have to offer are not with the biggest names. No,

Tony Bottoms:

I'd, I'd say majority of time they're probably not with the biggest names. I mean yeah. People make a big name for themselves because they've done their job well. Well, yeah. And so,

Heather Bottoms:

I mean, they've, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in and say Anthony Lear's the perfect example of that. I mean, when you and I first met Anthony, He still was working another job in addition to doing his horses, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and Anthony put in the time he paid his dues and he's made a, a fantastic little niche for himself that he's great at, and he excels at it and he deserves the recognition that he gets for that. Right. And he started in Appaloosa's. We should be celebrating that more. I mean, his career started in the heart of Appaloosa and now he chose an SBA and paints and he just went to Quarter Horse Congress with an appaloosa. Come on. I mean, he got the job done at Quarter Congress with an app. Right. We should be screaming this at the top of our lungs. It's amazing. It's amazing, right? Yeah. And it's like crickets.

Tony Bottoms:

I think I saw, I saw a couple things about it. I don't know if that was coming from Appaloosa. Or that was somebody else. Right? I, I think I remember seeing something. I mean, we see about it because Right. We're friends with Anthony, so we see his stuff on Facebook. But I might have seen something on like the Appaloosa page. I don't

Heather Bottoms:

remember. I honestly, I, I've gotten to the point and here it is. I'm gonna say it live. I don't even follow it anymore. I don't because it, it has nothing to offer. Right? There's nothing new to offer. What is new and exciting that is going to draw our attention in. And if you, and if you suggest something, I'm so tired of the, We've tried that before. . Oh my gracious. I mean, any anybody knows that a no is just a jump off point of ask again in a different way. Cuz it may be Yes next time.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. And it might have been something that was before its time or. You know, it was after its time, but then it'll come again. I mean, cuz you know, everything has, its, has these seasons, so Yeah. It might not have worked this time. Maybe there was this one little detail that you, you change that little detail and it makes it successful. I mean, you talk, you talk about, you read about some of the most successful inventors in the world and how many times they did tried their product and how many times they failed. Right.

Heather Bottoms:

Well, Kentucky Fried Chicken didn't even come to exist until he was 50 years old. I think

Tony Bottoms:

he's older than that actually. But yeah. You know, Dyson, Dyson vacuums, uh, Thomas Edison and Light Bulb, you know, there's so many things out there. They didn't quit trying, they kept doing right. The same thing. They just keep tweaking it until it became

Heather Bottoms:

successful. Right. And speaking of the same thing, We keep going to the same sponsors over and over and over. And, and I say that not just for Appaloosa. I mean, the reality is that is for every breed show that there is. And you know, there was a financial impact statement done, um, by the United States government. It was ordered last year, and it showed that the equine industry is the second largest con contributor to the US economy. That's huge. But the issue is that we have taken out

Tony Bottoms:

the NFL in the, in the baseball. Oh

Heather Bottoms:

yeah. Oh yeah. And smoked nfl, I mean, and all of them. Right? Right. The nfl, the racing industry, golf, the sponsorships that go to them, the, the size of the sponsorship. We have a larger industry and we can't get those sponsorships. And you know what they do different than we do. It's that in the equine industry, there's some sort of warped pride in segregating yourself from the other groups, right? Which is, I'm an appaloosa person, I'm not a paint person, and I'm not a quarter person and I'm not a thoroughbred person. And that's a dressage person. And oh my gracious days are rodeo people, you know? So, you know, let, let me just go to Rodeo for a minute. One of the most successful niches in the equine industry for sponsorships, and they do it at a homegrown level. I mean, you think about it, where in oligo where we lived, uh, It was a big deal to be rodeo queen. Mm-hmm. and the rodeo was promoted that way. Right, Right, right. Word of mouth, little girls selling tickets. Mm-hmm. , I wanna be Rodeo Queen. And of course you get your community behind you because those kids are in their community and people sponsor their kids. I mean, they just do. And so you get moms standing behind, daughter going, um, I buy my groceries here every week and so do all my friends, so I'm gonna have to ask you for a sponsorship and Yeah. The Apple market's gonna come up some money and put it into the rodeo. By the way,

Tony Bottoms:

Apple Market was only grocery store

Heather Bottoms:

ANU guy, so That's right. But Apple Market is gonna cough up some money. Right, right, right. And sponsor that kid. Right. But, but there is a, a trickle up effect. Right, Right. Because if you can get it at a homegrown level like that, then. Once it finally reaches to the national finals rodeo level, of course you can get cinch to sponsor everybody across the board because even the little peewees are wearing the cinch shirts. Right, right, right. And so it's not a big deal because they literally monopolize on what they're good at. Right. They capitalize on what they're good at. And I'm gonna tell you what, there's nothing better on this earth than a mama raising money for their babies, . I mean, there's just not Tell me. No. Yeah,

Tony Bottoms:

no. I mean, that's the backbone of the booster club for football and baseball and Right. Cheerleading and whatever.

Heather Bottoms:

And we keep polluting our same sponsors. I mean, eventually they're gonna say, No, they can't. It's, It's not a bottomless pit right. Of money. Right, right, right. So we have to find new places. And why are we not. Working in that manner. Like for example, it's the, uh, Arabian Nationals right now, Tulsa and Arabian Nationals is fantastic. Every single year there are ads on the radio, on social media, and the local news is broadcasting it on a regular basis, saying the Arabian Nationals is here. We have a day where we invite you to come and see our horses. These are the best of the best, the best of what we do. I made the mistake of making this suggestion on the Appaloosa for Progress page, and I just pulled down my post because it's not worth dealing with the naysayers that live in the world, But the comeback was that should occur on a regional basis. Well, yeah, I agree with you. We should. Yeah, absolutely. But why is there segregation between our regional club and our national club? Right? Because again, let's look at what rodeo does they have. In the equine industry, aside from horse racing, rodeo has the largest sponsorship period. Now, let me just point out in the equine impact statement that the second largest industry in the equine market happens to be. Quarter horse shows, quarter horse specifically, quarter horse shows, and quarter horses still can't get the sponsorship that the number five rated PGA can get. Or five. PGA Number five, contribution. Some of the wealthiest people in the world play golf, right? And what I'm telling you is per the impact statement, people that own horses contribute more to the US economy. Than the billionaires, which goes along with the, you're gonna, you know, we've used the shark minnow. Yeah. More min analogy, right? There's more minnows in the sea, how many sharks you have. Okay? So you might have five sharks that are willing to financially back you for a while, but eventually you're gonna have to ask a minnow. And if you've ignored the minnows and ignored the minnows and ignored the minnows, why do they wanna swim with the sharks anymore? Right? I mean, why? They'll go other places. They're gonna go other places. There's other bands of fish to join, right? I mean, they're not gonna stick our bread and butter is in fact, in our numbers. Not the few, not the big donation. But let's be honest, if we got $5 from every member sent in for every event that we did, it would far exceed anyone's single one donation. Right? And as a club, Our goal should be that we are so beloved that everyone would want to spend Right. $5, $2, $3, a dollar, It doesn't matter. But there's such division in the club, right? Just within the club. Oh, I'm Western Pleasure. Oh, I Right branch. Oh, well I do Chief Joseph. I was about to say, why don't we just say, we all write Appals. Yeah, I

Tony Bottoms:

was about to say go even farther than the division between like Western pleasure or hunt seat or whatever is the people who show and who don't show. Right. And then there's a lot, a much larger percentage of people who don't

Heather Bottoms:

show Right. That own this breed and

Tony Bottoms:

love it. Right. You know, the Do the Chief Joseph, the do the OIE and the Pie Trail and all that kind of stuff.

Heather Bottoms:

Or the, The Hunter jump shows. Yeah.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. Nowadays

Heather Bottoms:

usef. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're turning our back on an entire market. Well,

Tony Bottoms:

and from the club's perspective, if you look at, if you go back and you look at the financials from years past, the largest contributor to the bottom line for the club is the show in. Absolutely. I think last year, well, I don't know about last year, but the year before last, it was like $300,000 is what they made off of showing. Right. So, and they don't break that down. So you don't know if its nationals, you know, you don't know what all's involved it was showing. Right. $300,000, that was the largest income that they had. So if they're shortsighted, that's what they focus on. Right. But they don't focus on is for me, looking at that and saying, Eh, that's a lot of money, but a largest per percentage of our people are not showing. Right. So, Two questions for me in my mind. How do we get those more people to show, or how do we help these people contribute more to the club? That's, I don't think they

Heather Bottoms:

need to show, I mean, I think they, I think they should get to do what they want here. I'm gonna throw another wrinkle in your argument that you just had, which is go back to the, the national finals Rodeo. Go back to rodeo. Where it starts as homegrown, uh, the rodeo clubs mutton busting, right? Yeah, right, Exactly. Right. And then it, there's, there's a gradual elevation all the way through. Right, Right, right. How many of those people ride apples? Right. And again, we just stated, and it's not my opinion, I'm telling you, go look at the financial impact statement, Rodeo. Can get the money. Yeah. And they know how to get the money. Well, we have appaloosas in all of those venues. Why aren't we going to our app people in those venues and marketing it off of them to pull bigger sponsors to us? Right. Like

Tony Bottoms:

I know one of the biggest ropers right now, Trevor, I don't know his last name, but he just recently bought an Appaloosa and I've been seeing quite a bit on social media about it. Again, I don't see club doing

Heather Bottoms:

anything with that because we're not networking because we segregate ourselves. And, and again, I'm gonna say, please don't think I'm saying that just about ausa, that is across the board. Okay. Cuz when I rode Hunter Jumpers, it was, I ride Hunter jumpers. Not dressage. I mean, it, it is that. That's across the board. And like, and the biggest taboo thing that you could have done in the hunter jumper world was own an Arabian. Right. I mean, am I wrong? Right. And they don't really jump well, but that's not the point of what I'm saying. Right. I mean, when we're a little, when when I was a little girl, I promise you all horses were pretty. Right. Right. And I'm 50 years old now, and I have reached the conclusion that all horses are pretty and that they all deserve someone that loves them and they all serve a purpose and they all have a place. Right? Right. And I don't care if it's an Arabian, an appaloosa, a quarter horse of Theba, a warm blood, a Clyde's Clydesdale, who, who cares? I don't. I, I don't care. They're all pretty, I love them all. Um, and maybe that's just the full circle of life for me and my evolution as a horse person. Right. Um, because I also can tell you, at 50 years old, I've decided, gosh, I just don't care. Um, I just don't, and I, and I mean that in a, in a polite way, right, Right, right. Like I still, I still show respect to my judges and where the appropriate tire, I wish my judges would do the same, totally different topic, but , um, you know, I, I'm, I still am gonna be respectful for whatever venue that I'm in, and I'm gonna respect my trainer and my trainer's opinions and, and I'm gonna respect the judge and the judge's opinions. But with that said, I'm also gonna say that, uh, the trainers and the judges and the people that run Appaloosa Horse Club are no different than me. We're all people. And don't try to put yourself on an elevated platform because I'm just as equal as you are. You happen to do one aspect of your life exceptionally well, and for that reason, you. You are in the position that you are in. Correct. But that doesn't mean you're a better person than me. Um, I just want, I want to see the equality. I've lost my train of thought and where I was even going with this, but , uh, I, I just, I get frustrated. I get frustrated. I, I hear my friends, my friends are frustrated, um, with, with where they feel their horses fit in. Like I told you, I saw a thing on social media, um, about a, a halter person and their horse. And I can tell you the horse was exceptionally well bred by anyone's standards. Right, right, right. The horse was exceptionally well bred, and it was relayed that while at a show, speaking to one of the larger named people within our club, um, They just look down their nose at her. Wow. That's her way to bring somebody into the club, isn't it? Right. I mean, that makes you feel welcome and wanna keep showing, doesn't it? Right. Um, and that's, that's sad. That's sad because she took that to social media. So you can make the Appaloosa for Progress page as rosy colored as you want, but there are plenty of places where it's not

Tony Bottoms:

rosy. Right. Where you cannot control Right. What is being said. At least if you're allowing open discussion within your forum, you can kind of control it. If people are starting to get a little too nasty or whatever, then

Heather Bottoms:

you can say, that's not constructive. We're, we're allowed to have adult constructive conversations. Right. But we're not gonna tear each other down. I don't wanna tear anybody down. I don't, I honestly, I want everybody to be. Everybody, everybody deserves to be successful. Everybody deserves a fair shot. Even the people that just have appals in their backyard right. They should be included in the APSA Journal just like anybody else,

Tony Bottoms:

if not more so. I mean, cuz that's where everything comes from. That's where it all

Heather Bottoms:

starts, is down there. Right. Well, it goes back to the, that's the homegrown mama that'll do anything for her baby. Right, right, right. Yeah, that too. Yeah. I mean, and if they felt like there was a, a platform that they could use to celebrate their child, there's not a mom on the planet that won't celebrate their child if you give her the opportunity, you know? Right, right. I mean, you, you think about it like when Thad graduated high school. Mm-hmm. again, we're gonna go back to oligo. Small town. Small town usa. Right. I mean, it's just as small town as it can get. And for $10 I could write up. We're so proud of you since the day you were born to the day you graduated. You've made us happy. And it's published in our newspaper, Right. That we can cut out and put in his scrapbook album. And he has a message from mom and dad for the rest of his life.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, it's just like, you know, I did, I talked to Taylor Pearson a while back, Right. And there are three of her girls that got featured on the local news. Right. That they were going to World. Mm-hmm. . And you know, they actually came out and videoed him and all that. And I don't, other than on Taylor's page, I don't know of any other place that promoted that. You know what I'm saying? Well, we

Heather Bottoms:

got celebrated when a horse came to our community on a community level. It was in our newspaper. Do you not remember that? Oh no. I don't remember actually. , our horse was celebrated in a, in a newspaper that he was in town. I didn't know that. Yeah. . But yeah. I mean, because our town took pride in that. Right, Right, right, right. I mean, wow. He's here. Woo. Right. Yeah. And I mean, I'm sure not a lot of people knew what he was or who he was. And it didn't matter. It was that somebody thought it knows were newsworthy enough to make a blurb about it. Right, right, right. So I saw it and I was like, Oh, that's sweet. That makes me feel good. Right. I mean, it's the same story as, and I, and I said I wasn't gonna talk about any horse that we have, but I think that this is applicable to what we're talking about. Which was when, when we moved him to the barn in oligo mm-hmm. and when, when he was first moved there. And I ask that he just be called his barn. Right. Right. Do you, do you know what story I'm talking about? I mean, it's great. And I, and I said, you know, just, just call him his barn name. And this lovely, lovely woman, seriously, lovely woman in the barn, comes up to me one day and, and says, Is, is is that your horse? And I was like, Yeah. And she goes, Well, what does he do? And, you know, I said, Well, he's a, he's a breeding stallion. Yes. But what does, what does he do? I said, Well, he's a western pleasure horse. Well, I think that he is lovely. That's what this lady says to me, that he's lovely. And, um, we show locally and if you ever wanted, you know, to put a saddle on him and show him again, I'm sure he'd do pretty good. He's so cute. Right. Not knowing who he was. Right. Right. But I love that story and you know that I love that story. Because I can honestly tell you it was the first time I was ever invited to participate in anything with anyone in the stock show industry period. Right Now, she was ready to kill me three weeks later when she found out who he was, Um, but how sweet. How sweet, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, but the reality is probably too, if she had known who he was, I wouldn't have gotten the invitation. That's probably true, right? Yeah. Um, but we should be doing that for everybody, shouldn't we? I mean, on local levels. Hey, do you wanna come to a show and watch? Yeah. But I have another friend who, you know, where one of our bread mares is from that had the opportunity to look at a ranch horse, a an appaloosa ranch horse. Mm-hmm. . That was quite accomplished. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And actively shopping. Right. Had a, a good size amount of money to spend whose trainer. Chose Appaloosas and said, Hey, come and look at this appaloosa. And her response then, and still today when I talk is, was, No, never. I won't go near that club. Those people are crazy Now, if we're gonna be honest, that's, that's the perception of our club, right? If we're, if we're being honest, right? If we're not blowing smoke up each other's rear ends and we're gonna be honest about what's going on, our club does not have a good reputation. Right? I can tell you point blank, and I will never name names, organizations or anything, but on more than one occasion in talking to people and telling them what club I was affiliated, the response was, those people are crazy. Right? Why would you ever be involved in that? Well, I'm involved with Appless because I love apples.

Tony Bottoms:

And we, I've heard before talking to other people from other clubs or or other association how hard aplos to deal with, Right? Just flat out how hard they are to deal with, Right. And

Heather Bottoms:

to charge for this or that. I mean, and it's like, you know, take it back to a boarding in Virginia, right? Mm-hmm. . Cause this was a regular thing in Virginia when you would call and ask, uh, a boarding rate, right? So $650 full board, right? But then that they, then they would turn around and go, Well, there's a $30 blanketing fee and a $10 sheet fee, and if we feed your supplements it's $20. And so when it was all said and done, you're a thousand dollars. Right. Right, right, right. Because they have this a la carte system. Right. Versus it's a thousand dollars and we do everything right. I. Just just say it for what it is. Right, right, right, right. I mean, and it's like, go back for a second to, to thoroughbreds like we were talking about before because I had, I have crossed two thoroughbreds on apps, You know this. Right? Right. And I had to put the thoroughbreds in my name. I had to register my thoroughbred mares in Appaloosa. Mm-hmm. . And then I had to let, uh, the jockey club know that they were breeding to Fs. Right. So both of my mare's papers were stamped that they could not race. Right. Which is a little added wrinkle cuz they needed to verify that I wasn't trying to get around that rule. Right, right, right, right. So, wow, what a hardship to wait that 12 hours that it took them to verify that and get back to me. Second largest breed registry in the world, 12 hour turnaround to come back to me and go, Yeah, you're good. We've, we've gone ahead and put your names on the papers in, in 12 hours. And I'm gonna take it a step further. I didn't pay for that. There wasn't a, a fee for that because that club wants to track their horses Right. And know where they are. Right. So now at the same time, I had already submitted papers to App Club for my mares to be breeding mares. Four months later, , I got my papers. That

Tony Bottoms:

was, that was doing good.

Heather Bottoms:

Right. Not the largest or second largest club. Right. Close right. In the world. And so again, yeah, you're gonna say a lot of people are gonna come back and. Oh no. Their club is so big. They have so many more people working there. Actually they don't. Um, and if you look at the Jockey Club, you'll see exactly what I'm saying. They, it is not a large organization. No. That's like people that think Nsba is big and Nsba is five people. Right. It's five full-time people at Nsba and some part-time help, but five full-time people. I mean, they're not huge at all. Yeah. And, and Jockey club's not huge. The difference is it, and the differences in the Jockey Club and, and, um, SBA is they're automated. Mm-hmm. . Um, and they allow technology to do a large portion of the workload. Bruce, I'm recording. Right. And they, they allow technology to assist. Yes. How many times has it been presented and been told it's too expensive or we, Well, we had it available to us at once and now we can't. Right. Okay. So yeah, and I'm, The other thing I get increasingly frustrated hearing is present that out to the board and let, and let 'em take it and have a vote on it. Really? How long's that gonna take? How long is it gonna take you to vote on something? Well, it

Tony Bottoms:

seems that if, if they're not, if it's not supported by the membership, like if a lot of people don't call and say, We want you to vote on this, then it just goes away. But if it is supported by the membership and the BOD members are getting a lot of phone calls and emails and all that, then they will take it and they will. Still hand it off to a subcommittee to do whatever, you know, some research or, or whatever, which is reasonable. But then it just sits there for

Heather Bottoms:

like forever. I know you say it's reasonable, but you know what I hear when you saying this, this is years of you being in the military. That's probably true. Yeah. Right. This, this is just years of you being in the military because you have now grown accustomed to the fact that we pay a million dollars for a bolt for a toilet because it goes through 80 committees before we can buy that bolt for the toilet. Right? Right. I mean, and and, and that's the life that you live in. And the reality is, oh my God, give me the 50 cents and I will go by the bolt and buy the bolt for the toilet. And we don't have to ask the commandant of the base for the toilet bolt anymore. Right? Right. Because that's just ridiculous. And there, there are some things that are just ridiculous here. I I will even go out further and say, What month are we in October? What month was Nationals?

Tony Bottoms:

Uh, when was it? Uh, August. Mm-hmm. in July. August?

Heather Bottoms:

Yeah. August. August. August. So how many months is that apart? Two. A couple. Three and a half. Right? Right. Almost four months. Why are issues from nationals just now being addressed with people?

Tony Bottoms:

Well, if you bring that up, we know an issue that was from last year At World. At World, that is just now coming up.

Heather Bottoms:

Right? Right. Why is that? Why, why? I mean, and you might say because you're initial response, if you recall, was, Well, we have a new person in charge, so it could be that he's finally cleaning house and getting things organized. Maybe. Maybe Right. . Okay. Well and that means our house was in a big wreck prior to that. And then that whole, I'm just trying to be transparent. We're transparent, we're transparent. We're transparent was just a bunch of words cuz our house was never in order. Right. So it's one or the other. Right. But it can't be both. Right. You can't have it two ways. And I think that we have to be able as a membership to point that out and be able to hold people accountable and it not be held against us. I agree with that. Yeah. And I will say I truly regarded my words very carefully when I represented a certain horse because I didn't want it to fly on that horse. Right. And you knew that. Yeah. and now we have a young stallion. You and I own a young stallion. Right. And, um, you know what? I don't care. , I don't care.

Tony Bottoms:

Um, well, and that's partially because appaloosa doesn't affect what we're trying to do. Right. I mean, the minor, minor bit in there. Right. But

Heather Bottoms:

for there's an in run, we're making an in run around. Right. Right. Isn't that a shame that I love the breed so much that I'm still gonna own one. I'm, and I'm, I'm still gonna promote my stallion. That is one. But I've, you and I made the active decision to not do so within the club.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. For example, we're not going to world this year. Nope. So no world. But around that time is when he's gonna make his debut. Right. Just in a different place. Right. . Heather Bottoms: You know, If he doesn't, it's fine. Right. I mean, he was bred, I continued to, for me, . Right. And he, he happens to be a stallion and he's too nice to not remain a stallion. And that was a decision that you and I actively made. Right? Right. And, um, I have decided I don't care if I have the support of certain people or not behind me. I don't, because I learned really quick with the other horse who, who had my back Yeah. And who supported that horse. And it was a lot of minnows. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that to pretty much all his breeding program was, was

Heather Bottoms:

the minnows smaller? Was the minnows? Yeah. It was the minnows that, uh, that, that stood up, recognized, and. And supported. And I am appreciative for every single one of them and tried, you know, let's, let's take it a step further cuz it honestly count comes off something like Howard Grapes and I don't feel that way. I have no regrets for anything in, in how anything went down. And, um, and I'm, and this isn't like a stick it to Apple Lua because legitimately I would like to work within our club, right? Um, I would like to be able to promote my horse in my club and feel like he has a fair shot, right? The reality is I don't feel like he has a fair shot in my club. That's the reality, right? So that's, that's a sad statement to be made. What I'm gonna ask you, am I the first person that you've heard say that?

Tony Bottoms:

No. No. I mean, In a way, when I was talking to Jim Hollis, this last interview I did, he kind of said that in a way, I mean, he didn't say as directly, and I

Heather Bottoms:

heard, Well, that's just that we should be able to say it directly, shouldn't we? Right. Well, without fear of retribution. And like he

Tony Bottoms:

said, he said one of the reasons that one of the reasons he thought that he would be better for the position is he's not a judge. Right. He's not a trainer. Right. He's not a, you know, he does breeding, right. I mean, but so there's no fear of walking up to him and, and speaking his, your mind. I mean, obviously you wanna do it respectfully. You should respect everyone because he's not gonna retaliate against you by if you're in a ring. You know, because he's not a judge. We,

Heather Bottoms:

we hear that regularly. That's what people talk about when the cameras are off. Right. And then when the microphones are off, Right. That, uh, oh, you better watch yourself because. That so and so is a judge. Yeah. Well that shouldn't matter. Right? Right. What should matter is how my horse performs that day in the arena. Absolutely. Period.

Tony Bottoms:

And we've seen, I can't remember if this was a world or if it was nationals, but we seen, and it was a big name trainer, take a horse in the ring that was lame. Right. I mean, dog lame and still placed. Right. And there was another horse that was being led by a non-pro Right. That smoked everybody and they excused

Heather Bottoms:

and they were way down on the list. Well, and and there was a non-pro last year that was excused for their horse being lame while the professional stood in the arena with the lame horse. Right. So I mean, I mean, if you're gonna cut one, you better cut 'em both, right? Yeah. They better both go. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm not saying that any non-pro should be showing a lame horse. I'm saying if you're cutting one, you should cut 'em both. Right, Right. Period. I don't care what your name is on the end of the lead leave, you know it. It should feel as if it's a level playing field. I have talked to a trainer in the past that told me whatever I get when I show the horse in the arena, no matter how the horse behaves with the non-pro, they will place the same way

Tony Bottoms:

as a trainer in, in open, in

Heather Bottoms:

no again, or vice versa. I heard a trainer say, When I take this horse in open, whatever, I win, it's non-pro owner handler. When it takes it in the arena, we'll get the same thing that I did, period. And then I thought, Surely that's not true. And I sat there and watched. And in fact it was, it wasn't pretty much, it was. It wasn't even, pretty much it was,

Tony Bottoms:

I've seen some of the non pros place higher than their trainers before,

Heather Bottoms:

but, but never lower, I think is what my point would be. Right. Higher is just a bonus. Lower is the issue. Right. So what that has said to us is there is definite value placed on that trainer's name and that the class was pinned before the horses ever entered the arena. Right. That's what that says to me. And again, this is the conversation nobody wants to have publicly and out loud because it flies in the face of, of what our industry is supposed to be. Right, Right.

Tony Bottoms:

Especially on the non-pro side.

Heather Bottoms:

Right. And so on the same hand, if you ask people like myself, I will tell you, I'm just gonna go where I feel like there's a level playing field. Right. They'll be happy to take my money.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. And in those more level playing fields, you can actually get money back, which I think is why a lot of the rodeo stuff is so appealing for people. Sure, sure.

Heather Bottoms:

Absolutely. And, and you have, you noticed the mass exodus towards certain events, right? Right. Like branch riding, right? Yeah. Whew. Huge, huge. And, and that's that apps, quarters, paints, branch riding is huge. I mean, just branch riding and branch riding is huge. Right. Um, non breed specific. It's, it's huge. Yeah. And, and part of that goes into when we showed hunters and jumpers, the people that felt like that they were politically affronted. Right. That the names were always went to winning. People went to jumpers. Right. Right. Because jumpers is on time. Right. It's on time. Right. You know, it's nobody's opinion. Right. It's not subjective. It's you go out there and you do your job. Right. And, and you win, Right? Like barrel racing, right? Like, like pole bending, right? Yeah. There's a reason why these events are popular, right? Because you remove the politics, the politics from the event. You, you just, you remove it. So branch riding while still subjective, because you have some people's opinion in there. A a, a portion of branch riding also is can you get the job done right? And there is beauty to that same thing, uh, with raining, right? Or Yeah. Or cutting you, you do it or you don't. It's it, right? I mean, it's all on you. It's not, it's not based on somebody. I mean, there is some opinion and raining, but Right, right, right. But if you go out there and you're not slotting, you're not getting it done. Right. If you're not doing your flying change, you're not getting it done. You know, if you're not demonstrating your hand Gallup or it's not happening, right? So it, it falls on you. So, When you see the exodus that we are seeing, it's time to take a real hard true look at yourself, right? And it can't be the way it's been. It, it can't be smoke and mirrors, which is what I feel like it's been, Oh, well, we're doing something about it. Really? How many years did it take to find a venue? Right? Yeah. That's not a year's long thing. I don't, I don't care what anybody says. It's just not, it's not.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, there was a lot that went in particularly nationals. There was a lot that went into where it was supposed to be. I mean, so I don't, I don't envy them on making that decision. It's like, okay, do you, you pick a place that is the best medium location for everybody. You go back to how it used to be, where it moved around, all that kind of stuff. I mean, and

Heather Bottoms:

for me, it just goes back to the 80 people that it takes to make a decision on the toilet seat. Okay. We just it. It's not that complex. I mean, things are, as difficult as you choose to make them are as easy as you choose to make them. Right. Because the reality is when a, when a new person came in and decided a decision was gonna be made, it was made very quickly. Right.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, I know, I remember talking to one

Heather Bottoms:

and that wasn't not the backs of other people, it was just a quick plea. Right. I know

Tony Bottoms:

I talked to one DOD member at the time that that was in, they were saying the reason they, they chose Indiana was they took a map of all the people who were members who showed and looked at the number and you know, like where the majority of people were. And for him, the numbers were, the majority of people were more towards the East coast, so that's why he picked Indianapolis. And he goes, Cuz other than that, they had no information on how to decide. So that was for him, that was how he was deciding. And I was like, okay, well that's valid. I mean that's a valid way of doing it. Is it the right way? I don't know. Is it the correct way? I don't know. But at least they took the time to figure something out and based it on something, you know? I think that's a lot of the problem is a lot of decisions are based on emotion. Emotion.

Heather Bottoms:

And we don't wanna leave Texas. Right. That's, I mean, there it is. Right. Let's just say what it is. We don't wanna leave Texas.

Tony Bottoms:

And if they got somebody in their ear saying they

Heather Bottoms:

don't want 'em to leave Texas, stay in Texas and I'll pay you more money. Right, right. And again. Okay, that's great. So there's money being offered to you in Texas. By the few. What about all the money that you'd get from them? Many, right? If you listen to them.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, that's the, the thing I've brought up about the stalls at world, the, the price that they charge for the RV spots. You know, the

Heather Bottoms:

RV spot? Please don't give . Oh my gracious. That is insane. Yeah, that is absolutely insane. And so for those that don't know, I'm gonna reveal a little secret to all of you. That's fine. Um, which is an RV spot in Tulsa. True Tulsa is $30 a night. And there are clubs that will negotiate that. Better rates. There are clubs that negotiate. They get to dictate how much the RV spot is. So what should cost. $30 a night because this is a venue that makes a living off of it. Costing $30 a night now costs 80 Right. A night. Ridiculous. Well,

Tony Bottoms:

and then Fort Worth, it's, if any other time of the year you go through Fort Worth, you go through the, the, the Coliseum to get your RV spot's. $40.

Heather Bottoms:

$40, no matter where you're at. Oh. And and, and my favorite part about that, if you recall, when we were parked there with our RV and we had paid double $90 Yeah. Or our RV to be parked there when there was an issue. When we first got there, they had to call who to fix it. The Coliseum. The Coliseum to fix it. Right. But I paid you extra money, but you're gonna call the Cheapos to come fix me. So why don't I just pay the people directly that are taking care of me? And I was talking

Tony Bottoms:

to the people there at the Coliseum. I was talking to 'em. Appal Lua is only people that do it that way. Right. You have to go through Appal Lua to get your RV spot. Right. Everybody else goes through the coliseum. Right. And there's,

Heather Bottoms:

so it's, it's pretty hard to say that that's anything other than greed. Yeah. Especially

Tony Bottoms:

that much. Yeah. I mean, if there's justification

Heather Bottoms:

for it, let me know what it is. Heard it let me know what it is. Because, because the Colosseum is who fixed our problem, not appaloosa. Right. And I do not begrudge our club raising money. I don't think it should be at that extent, and on extreme at that extreme on the backs of people. Right. I just don't, I don't, I don't think that that should be the case. The,

Tony Bottoms:

the one argument that I could somewhat, and I'm not gonna even, even come close to justify. Was, Well, we have to charge the same rate as what somebody staying in a hotel would be, or else everybody else would be coming here to stay in their RV instead of using the hotels.

Heather Bottoms:

Okay, So now we're supporting the, the local tire companies, gas companies, and at restaurants or, or, or grocery stores. Because we're cooking our food in our rv. The reality is we're still spending the same amount of money. We're just disperser dispersing it further throughout the community. Right? I mean, sorry. We had a

Tony Bottoms:

little bit of a power issue. The power went out and kind of killed everything. But so, so the way it's explained to me was the money, the incentive that we got from Fort Worth. Because of the money that we would be going out. And that would be spent in the community.

Heather Bottoms:

Yes. Well, we're still spending, See, to me that's an invalid argument because okay, so I'm not staying in the hotel that supplies my free breakfast, my continental breakfast. Instead I'm gonna stay in my RV and I'm gonna go grocery shop to make my, to make my breakfast. Where you go

Tony Bottoms:

out to buy your breakfast.

Heather Bottoms:

Right. Or I go buy my breakfast, I'm gonna buy my gas. Right. I'm gonna buy my propane cuz we bought propane while we were there. I'm gonna buy my propane for my rv. Um, I'm just spending it at a different place. Right. It's just not going to a hotel. So if the reality is you made a deal with the hotel, say that, but don't say so. It's dispersed through the community because it is dispersed through the community

Tony Bottoms:

period. And probably more so if you're staying in an rv, because like you said, not only are we paying for that spot to stay in an rv, and this was my argument too, was not only am I paying for that spot, But I'm also paying for my fuel. I'm paying for my propane, I'm paying for my maintenance and all that on my truck and on my trailer or whatever it is. You have insurance, insurance, all that. So in the end, I pay more money. I'm paying more to be sitting there in that RV than somebody who's staying in a hotel. And it might, I mean, I probably kinda goes back and forth. It might be more convenient to stay in hotel. Might be, at least in rv, you're right there by the showgrounds. You don't have to worry about traffic and all that. But, you know, hotel, somebody's making your bed, making your continental bro is all that, you know, whatever,

Heather Bottoms:

you know, this is true. Right, right. Like, like that's just, that's whatever decision you wanna make. But there's no justification for a

Tony Bottoms:

$40 income. Nah. Yeah. No, that was, yeah, that's

Heather Bottoms:

outrageous. And, and, and don't tell me it's because we made a deal because it, you're, The reality is, if it's cheaper for me to stay in my rb, I'm actually gonna spend more money in town. Right.

Tony Bottoms:

That's what I don't think people get is that, you know, if you're charging all this money up front, then they're like, If we're horse people, then we're gonna spend that money on the horse eventually. So if I'm saving money here, you're still getting it back down here. You know?

Heather Bottoms:

Right, right. The so yeah, so it goes to the whole, one of the things that we had talked about for a while, which was if you would do block scheduling, right, And you have all of the Western pleasure events and all of the hunter events, and then they're done and boom, now it's halter or whatever. Right? Right. Um, then, then I can take my week off of work and I can come in and show my halter horse and then I can go back to work and. And then that same hotel room would be rented, I promise you, to the hunter rider or the western pleasure rider that's coming in and now you're making double stall money cuz you got it from me for the week that I was there. Right, Right. And I left. And now they're coming in with their horse and now you're getting their stall money and then you, And then they got all of my money for my food there. I mean, in actuality there would be more money spent because I'm not spending two weeks of vacation off of work, living in a hotel for two weeks and trying to feed my family for two weeks while paying somebody at home to take care of my horses, dogs, cats, kids, whatever it is. Right, right. And so the reality is you're actually gonna get a larger disbursement of funds within the community and probably even with your vendors at the show, I'm gonna be able to enter more classes. Right. Right. So ultimately your show's gonna be larger because you've accommodated me, right? And wow. Is there anybody that's proven that to be a viable process? I don't know. Uh, I think Pinto is like the, the largest show registry now that there is. And, and you think, Well, why is that? Maybe because they're listening. Yeah. They listen to the membership and, and what it is that people are saying and they see if we block schedule, we actually get more people. Right. And I, these people leave, these people come in when it, when it's all said and done, there's more money spent.

Tony Bottoms:

And I, you know, I've made comments about like, for example, the shavings, how much more expensive? Cuz I know where they get the shavings for in Tulsa because we used to buy from the same place. And so,

Heather Bottoms:

There's a $6 bag mark up everybody. I'm gonna tell you. $6 bags. Right? And like

Tony Bottoms:

I asked, I said something to Bill Bke about this one time, and he goes, Look, he goes, number one, it's a contract. He said, We don't get any money out of that. He goes, But he goes, Think about this. When everybody leaves, who's here left to clean up? He goes,

Heather Bottoms:

Tulsa, I'm gonna tell you who's left to clean up because I, I don't know that everybody understands that. That's a park, right? A park it's

Tony Bottoms:

owned by, That's

Heather Bottoms:

Tulsa County. Yeah. Yeah. Tulsa County does the cleanup. Don't let anybody tell you different I, I'll tell you straight up, they hire manpower people and I know this cause I worked there. Right. Okay. So I worked there. That's who cleans up that vineyard.

Tony Bottoms:

Right? Well, his point to the matter is he's like, Yeah, there is a markup on the shavings, but they're paying for this. I'm like, Okay. I don't know if I necessarily agree with the amount of markup. But okay. At least he justified it. And he justified. I mean, he was straight up with me about it. You know, there's no smoke and mirrors. It was, Hey, number one, it's a contract. We don't get any money off of that. Number two is, who's the ones that bring it to you and put it in front of your stall, and who is left to clean up when you all leave? And that's a big cleanup. I mean, if you think about particularly Pinots, that's a

Heather Bottoms:

huge, I don't think about it. I know what it, you know, I know. I'm just saying it, it is, its, it is a, it's a big cleanup, but $6 a bag. Yeah,

Tony Bottoms:

it's a lot. I mean,

Heather Bottoms:

that's, so, it's a lot. It's more than the bag. I mean, that's, that's the reality, right? What I just told you is it's more than the bag, right? I mean, you're, you're legitimately not even paying for product.

Tony Bottoms:

Right?

Heather Bottoms:

Yeah. All, all you're paying for is labor.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I mean, well, and then cost of labor nowadays is. , if you can find,

Heather Bottoms:

that's a whole different topic. We won't, we won't, we won't discuss that. That's a whole new topic. Right. But like I have some friends on social media that have point blank left showing together. Yeah. Um, not cuz they don't love the show, but because it's cost prohibitive in relation to the reward that is received. Right. As shame. That's a shame. Because they don't feel like there is any room for them to produce a horse without it being at a big trainer. Right. And it and, and, and, and let's be. And every industry, again, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what we're talking about. The niche breeders, the onesie, twosy mayor, owners that are going to the bigs stalls year after year after year, that that's who supports yours. Right? And if that person has a nice baby and sells it to a non-pro, instead non-pro doesn't take that horse to a trainer and instead tries to develop the horse themselves in the type of political environment, extreme political environment that is regularly seen within the Appaloosa Horse Club, how will they ever recoup their money? They can't. They won't. Yeah, they never will. They can't make a stallion. They can't make a mayor and they can't make a sales horse. They lose their shirt. It's expensive. Yeah. Um, and so, and then, then, then, then why would they want to continue? Right. And that's what we're seeing is not, I mean that's,

Tony Bottoms:

And even within the appaloosa community, abs are selling for big money outside of

Heather Bottoms:

Appaloosa. Yeah. Outside of Appaloosa. Our horses bring higher returns than almost any breed. That is not a joke.

Tony Bottoms:

It's cuz everybody likes a

Heather Bottoms:

flash. I mean, think the, the Virginia Horse Sale, Right. The uh, Virginia Horse Center trail, Trail riding sale that just went down. It was a leopard gelding, I'm gonna say that again. Gelded didn't have a uterus, wasn't a breeding stallion, wasn't ever gonna reproduce itself. He was pretty, he was flashy, he was quiet, he was versatile. All of the things that we tout on our breed. Yeah. Is it not all of the things that draw us to the love of an appaloosa color? The movement. Good size, good brains pack a kid, man. He did it all. He roped he trail road. He did hunters. I mean, they literally had him doing everything in the sales video. That horse sold for over a hundred thousand dollars. And I promise you, I promise you, within the app club, it maybe was a $2,500 horse. Right? Not because he wasn't worth more than 2,500, but because it is organized in a way that that's all the value that would be placed on that horse. Right. And what a shame that is because what he sold to was a family that was looking for a safe horse for their kid. And it goes right back to what Mama isn't gonna do whatever she can. Right, Right. to make sure her baby is taken care of. It turns right back around to the exact same place. Right. Right. Does it not? Which is, I mean, Tony, you and I have an autistic son, right? And one of the bones of contention in our marriage on a regular basis was, Heather, you're doing too much for him. Right Heather, You're doing too much for him. And what was my response to you Every time your mother, his mom. Right? That's my baby. Back all . I mean, you know, , that's my son. I'm not the only person that feels that way. Right. I mean, you know, I was on a subcommittee, you know this, the marketing subcommittee and there was a lovely woman, I'm not naming names, but out, out of being respectful, right? You know this, there was a lovely woman on the marketing committee that was a mother at a barn. And she and the other barn moms within their community actively raised money for the children at that barn to go to world. Not just that, but they had enough money to sponsor a day, right? Do you understand? No. She's one single mom that decided, Hey, I'm gonna bring 10 kids. One mom made it possible for 10 kids off of Shearer mom power. Right, Right, right, right. Do you understand? Right. And and we all know mom, guilt within the community of I shop here, sponsor my kid.

Tony Bottoms:

And Right. If you look at the statistics, it's the horse world is ran by women. I mean,

Heather Bottoms:

well, it's , but, um, um, but you see something else happened when that happened, right? She made her community care. About the Appaloosa breed and about world people that had probably never heard about it before, suddenly just got introduced to it. Why is a big deal , Right? Why is this a big deal? Right, right, right. So so she explained it. That's my point. Right. Like so she explained it. So now we just brought people in through word of mouth again. What rodeo does all done with the Rodeo Queen

Tony Bottoms:

all the time? Well, you know, it's funny cuz we were watching Congress on online and they have a Congress queen and I saw somebody made a comment that we used to have that for Appaloosa, but it's kind of gone away. So, And that's kind of going back to what you're saying about the rodeo and the Rodeo Queen and all that kind of stuff.

Heather Bottoms:

Well, but think about it, because everybody starts someplace and I'm not talking about writers right now, we're just gonna talk about the mom-and-pop business, right? Right. So everybody starts someplace. So Apple Market may be the only grocery store in uga, and it started off as Apple Market. But now Apple Market, outside of their original stores is known as resource. Right. Resource is pretty big. Yeah. Um, and if Resource ever wanted to go on a national level, for me to have solicited from Apple Market and Apple Market, then to go, Oh, you wanna grow bigger, here's a venue that represents people all across the United States that we've sponsored. Right, right, right. Um, again, which is what Rodeo does really well, right? Because they get the mom and pop businesses that grow into the bigger businesses. Right? And we keep going over and over and over and over to the same businesses. Tony, what is. Everywhere in the state of Oklahoma, Tulsa to Oklahoma City, many of them, no casinos. Casinos. It's the same customer base. No, don't roll your eyes. Customer base. We, we spend money on our horses and travel and gamble that it may pay off. Right. We are the same , we are the same customer

Tony Bottoms:

base. Oh, see, a rodeo is probably closer to equivalent to a casino because they could actually get money back, you know? But Yeah. But

Heather Bottoms:

what, But again, odd goes to the, We're not, we're not, we're not utilizing, we're not utilizing the equine impact statement the way that we should. Just so you know, like our club should have that memorized at this point. And be able to go to anyone at any time and quote a statistic and to tell them what it is because you know, I courted a casino. Yeah, yeah. And got very far with a casino. So it's not any stretch of the imagination to think that our club could, I know that our club could pull a casino because I know what they want. I know what that casino wants. Right. And I know because of that, our club could pull it if they ask.

Tony Bottoms:

You just gotta have a closure. You have to have the closing on.

Heather Bottoms:

They have to have a closure and they have to have someone that doesn't go, We tried that before. Right, right. And they have to know how to sell it. Yeah. And, and the way that you sell it is, we're the same customer base. Right. Will offer you exclusivity on advertising your hotel. Right. But think about what a casino is to our trainers. Okay. Cause it was such an untapped market, and I'm just gonna talk about this for a second because it blows my mind that it's not ever been utilized. Casinos are open 24 hours a day, Right? And what's, say casinos 24 hours a day with a casino, Dude. So Face Man, and our trainers work crazy freaking schedules. We are on crazy schedules, of course shows, right? Okay. So before Covid, Pre Covid, there was a lot of places on our crazy schedules. Now post Covid, you know, as well as I do. Even Walmart's not 24 hours anymore, right? Right. So to be able to stay in a venue that provides an exceptionally clean hotel, right? Entertainment, after hours of entertainment, free alcohol, and access to 24 hour food. Did we not just describe every trainer in non pro's dream location for a horse show. Right, Right. Like, and you can eat anything from eggs to steak. These places have it all right. So, dude, why are we not there? Yeah. And, and in the state of Oklahoma, the majority of the casinos are owned by Native American. Right. Tribes, Do I need to say what our breed is? I believe, right? I don't know. I mean, I, there may be a correlation there. What do you think ? I, I, I'm wondering why it hasn't been Right. Tapped into, but that's just me. What do I know?

Tony Bottoms:

Who knows? Well, we've been going for a while, so I think we could probably stop

Heather Bottoms:

and Yeah. And I'm gonna say for anybody that wants to have a say in this, Right? And if you're on Facebook, for example, and you go to Messenger, there's a little microphone. Mm-hmm. On Messenger, and if you press that, you can speak and Tony can download you and just plug you right on in. And you can, we can let there be responses to this if y'all wanna have responses or to make,

Tony Bottoms:

if it makes it easier for you, all you gotta do is go appaloosa podcast.com and right there on the right hand side, there's a little button that says Leave voicemail. So you can click on that and leave a voicemail. And it's actually pretty good quality. I was playing around with it today, so it actually comes out pretty good quality even on your

Heather Bottoms:

phone. So I want y'all to know that, um, I decided to just throw it to the wind and say, even though I'm promoting a, a young up and coming stallion, that I'm gonna let the chips fall where they may, and y'all can watch to see where they fall. how's that, right? I mean, just call it, call it as I see it, Um, I hope that there's not retribution, but if there is,

Tony Bottoms:

there is really affect us a whole lot. But I mean, It. It could, it could,

Heather Bottoms:

but, and, but the reality is, if it does, it speaks volumes about how much work needs to be done. Right. And then

Tony Bottoms:

one of the things, you know, when I originally started the podcast, you know, we were, like Heather was saying before, we were excited about it and all that kind of stuff. And then we've taken some pretty hard knocks here recently from personally and from the club itself. And so there's

Heather Bottoms:

that I've chosen to be silent about. And if I ever decide to open my mouth, I promise it's not gonna move.

Tony Bottoms:

It'll blow some people's minds for sure. Yeah. But so I had lost a lot of respect and I don't know, enthusiasm for doing it. And then Heather came to me with this idea and I was like, Hey, this probably a good idea. And it's a way. Allowing us to rebuild a community and to allow people to have a voice in saying stuff like what we're saying here. You know, like, like I was saying at the beginning, you know,

Heather Bottoms:

it's, it, look, it's easy to, uh, have retribution against one or two people. It's very difficult to have retribution against

Tony Bottoms:

the entire community. Right. And then I also wanna give people a place to have a voice, you know, because that's one of the things that people like, was it last year world, Somebody printed something in a journal and people like, Well, that's not the place for it. And I was like, Well, if that's not the place for it, where do they have the voice to say something? Right? Because there's no place.

Heather Bottoms:

But that goes back to the, it wasn't roses, right? Yeah. It didn't smell like roses. People got fired because of that. Sure. It didn't smell like roses. So we're gonna blame this little person and I mean, I'll just jump out here again and go, Well, if it was anybody's fault, it doesn't roll downhill. That should have landed on the, the very top person. Right? Right. Should have been taken down for that. Yeah, I agree with that

Tony Bottoms:

one. But, so anyhow, you can go on, like Heather said, go on Messenger, leave it's message that way you can go on the, the website. Leave a message that way or however you guys want to do it.

Heather Bottoms:

Look, this is our last ditch effort to, to try to fall in love with our club. Is it not? Because, and I want to, I desperately want to love the Appaloosa horse club. I want to have pride in, right? I want to be able to point to my club and say, Not only are the horses beautiful. The people spectacular and the majority of people are spectacular. Right? This is a case of a few bad apples. Really does really much. Yeah. And I would like to be able to point to my club and say they listen and they welcome and they want new people and they don't kill your enthusiasm and they don't tell you, you are not good enough. This is a place where you can come and enjoy your horse and have a voice and Yeah, And have, And have friendships. Be able to participate and make good memories. We've made memories. I'm just not gonna say they're good ones. Well, and then like

Tony Bottoms:

I was looking at, you know, it's coming up on elections and I was looking at all the people who are up for election this year and you know, Jim Hollis is the only person who's running against somebody else. And if you look at the list of people. There's only two BD members who are returning,

Heather Bottoms:

which I think is a good thing. But Yeah. But that's a whole different, That's, I mean, I like the infusion. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Tony Bottoms:

Thought and attitude. But then if you look at some of the people, it's like, it's kind the same old thing over again. You know? And but one of them was a fairly young, energetic person who was like, No, I'm not gonna do this again. So, you know, a lot of your, your BD is, they're stepping out, right? But there's no one running against anybody else, which to me is a sign of an issue. Oh yeah. I mean, that's, that's to me is a big red flag that, Right. People should be clamoring for those spots, not right, because they want the power or whatever, but because they feel that they can contribute something to the club and that they have good ideas,

Heather Bottoms:

they. They feel like that they have a voice. Is it that what we're talking about right now? I mean like nobody feels like they have a voice. Right. I agree with that part. So no one, no one feels like that they can have a voice and speak openly and walk away unscathed, . Tony Bottoms: So here it is, we're be able to, I, we have the technology. We can run this live if that's something we shoot. And if you wanna be anonymous, be anonymous. Yeah. I say be bold, but do what you gotta do.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I mean, I guess you could send a text

Heather Bottoms:

and again, please, please hear me. I, I just really want everybody really, truly hear me. I think all of the trainers are fantastic and they deserve to be trainers and deserve to make a living. And I think that big name horses deserve big names. But I also think that there are plenty of horses that you should know the name of, that you do not.

Tony Bottoms:

That's true. All right, Well, y'all have a good one. Talk to you later. Bye-bye.