May 20, 2021

How Do We Attract New Members to the ApHC?

How Do We Attract New Members to the ApHC?

This is our monthly Facebook Live discussion. This month I ask the question, "How do we attract new members and how do we regain lost members. I am joined by Heather Bottoms, Jeffery Oaks, Frank Marley, Gail Smith, Aaron Jackson, and Tara.

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Transcript
Tony Bottoms:

Hey, how you doing welcome to the only podcast that talks about the Appaloosa horse and the people who I love them. I am your host, Tony bottoms. And today what I got for you, this was a Facebook live event that we had talking about how to attract new members and pull back in old members that have left the APH. See, there was me, my wife, Heather Jeffrey Oaks, Frank Marley, Gail Smith tear from New Jersey. I'm sorry, Tara. I forgot your last name and Aaron Jackson. I think that was everybody. And again, this one's a longer one, so I'm not going to do Appaloosa news. We'll just go right into it. I tried to clean it up a little bit and make it easier for you to listen to. I know it's different when you're watching video, but when you're listening, I tried to clean up and make a little bit better for you. I also wanna remind you if you would like to help out with the booze that we're trying to get for Appaloosa youth and for nationals, you can go to buy me a coffee.com/appaloosa, or you can go to patrion.com/appaloosa. If you're not comfortable with either one of those, you can just direct message me. Tell me how much you like to donate. And I'll send you an invoice. Anybody who donates something will get their name on the banner that we're having for the backdrop, any amount over $50 for get your company logo. Or if you have say like a stallion or something like that, we'll put your stallion up there. That way the backdrop for when we do the live video and the videos and stuff like that, help you do a little bit advertise in that way. If you want to. Anyhow, let's go ahead and get into the conversation. Matt desires, 2009 eight PAC Bay stallion tire by TD and three in Alec Keller figment, man desire was a 2010 world champion non-pro year lane. 2011 unanimous world champion. Non-pro two year old, 2011 reserve world champion open two year old and a 2012 reserve world champion open three-year-old man desires. Foals are winning thousands and major maturities touches best in the West and the goldmine, sir, all his foals are eligible for a halts fraternity best in the West for charity, East coast, halter fraternity, APH stallion auction, incentive classes and breeders truck. Man desires get have gotten multiple world and national champion high point award in nation. Matt desires owned by Johanna downs and is standing at CNC show horses and equine production owned by Cindy and Craig Polly. You can reach them at (951) 743-5653. Everybody. Welcome to Appaloosa. This is our monthly thing that we're going to try to start doing where we're talking about different. Things going on around the community this week, I put it out on Facebook. What would y'all want to talk about? And the most asked for question was the marketing. How do we attract new members? How do we get old members back and all that? But all in actuality, I think that's two different questions. Actually. I think going to new members is definitely different back old members. So I think those are actually two different questions in themselves. So right now we got my wife Heather on and we got Jeffrey Oaks down there in Tennessee and supposed to have Tara out of New Jersey. But I think she might've lost connection. She's in New Jersey. There's Aaron Jackson. Let's get him in. Yeah,

Tara:

I'm still here. I can hear you guys.

Tony Bottoms:

There's Frank Marley. Hey, how you doing? I'm good. How are you trying to clean my camera? So I got, uh, I'd ask, uh, Hannukah Sarah to come on. And she said she could, well, I just got a message saying she couldn't be here. Eight PAC marketing department is currently working on regarding membership. We are currently holding a referral frame program. We're asking a members to encourage their friends and family to join a PAC for a chance to win a $200 cash. When $200 cash, new members can earn a friend's name in the referral box on their membership app. And to run this again, this year, we'll be launching a regional ad campaign to promote HPHC events in regional publications and on social media to promote ACHC and lists regional shows as it's happening in the area. The goal is grassroots growth, original clubs and national club by bringing awareness to local events, potentially new memberships and participation. We will welcome any ideas that come from the discussion site. Hopefully you'll pass those on to me. Yep. That's our problem. So anybody have any ideas on that? Or, I mean, anybody with any, they want to start kind of going where they're, what, what ideas they have, where, where do you think we need to go with this, uh, to help them out? You, you didn't miss it earlier. Frankly. I was saying that I think attracting new members and bringing back old members are two different things. I think that there are two different approaches. So attracting new members and getting old members are, are two different things. Of course, I think the things that we would do to. Attract bring back old members would help bring in new members, you know, I E lowering costs and stuff like that. But if you're trying to go for new members, you're not going to find them in the same places that you found members that have left. I don't think,

Heather Bottoms:

I think that in order for us to bring in new membership aside from affordability, but I mean, we all have to understand we're doing a sport. That is a luxury item. It's a luxury. I understand.

Tony Bottoms:

It's going to

Heather Bottoms:

try to attract new members, Michelle, we have to make it more

Jeffery Oaks:

welcoming for them, and you'll be

Heather Bottoms:

glad barns. One of the things that I've found when I came in debris shows. And the breach, our industry is people buy their horses and they send them to a trainer and the trainer preps their horses, and then they go and ride their horses. Whereas the world that I grew up in it was we went to gravity lessons and we rode school horses, and then we leased a horse. And then if we were fortunate enough, we got to buy a horse and go and show, and we worked our way up through. So by the time we were showing on our own worst, we could prep our own horses and go there and push them along. But there's really nothing within in the show world right now with Appaloosa show world that encourages kids to do that. And I mean, even if it's that we offer clinics at shows, small clinics before a show for the youth to go and participate in something along that line. But how, how can we expect our membership to grow or. People don't want to participate if we're not welcoming, welcoming.

Tony Bottoms:

Okay. Yeah. I think Jennifer, you kind of had some of the same background, right? The, with the show in listen barn first, right? Well, you guys are kind of from somewhat the same area.

Gail Smith:

Yeah.

Jeffery Oaks:

So originally I'm from Southwest Virginia. Um, and there, I went up through the ranks of the four H program. I started out in the lesson program. Um, I was very fortunate to come in from a very small community to have an amazing instructor

Gail Smith:

who

Jeffery Oaks:

if, if we were willing to put in the work, she was willing to afford us the opportunity to grow. And I was fortunate enough that she and her husband and family had breed show horses. They showed POA actually. And so once she realized that we, you know, if we were going to really take on. The the responsibility and put forth the work. She would allow us to go to some shows and on some of these breed horses and get her feet wet and find, found out things and, um, learn and grow his horsemen and horsewomen. And those are a lot of the things myself as a riding instructor and now trainer, um, that I try to implement in my appropriate. Um, you know, I tell my kids coming in, I foster you being a good horseman or horse woman first and a good rider second to that. Um, cause there's a lot of responsibility and there's a lot that goes into this. I mean like, um, Heather had said these are luxury items and my kids know upfront. Like you're, you're afforded a lot of opportunity that other kids don't just have. And I expect you to put in the work to grow through the program. But if I see that you'll do it. I'm going to be willing to put my neck out and do what I can to get you where you want to be. Um, and I think for me, that's one of the things that I've noticed across the board with a lot of youth is, you know, they get into it and they do it for me to last sentence and I lose interest, um, because it's much easier to sit behind a keyboard or a video game. Um, but those ones that I really see that take an interest in and I'm willing to foster that. And I hope that in that they go and tell their friends and then their friends want to come and work on the same thing and get the same opportunities. And I've been able to grow my program and it's constantly growing. And, um, you know, my goal is to. I eventually have more apps in my barn and more Appaloosa's out there showing with my kids. But, you know, it's one of those things where a lot of my kids, it is, it comes down to money and finances. Um, we start out at the open show level four H level, things like that. And then when we try to grow our program so that, you know, and I'm very upfront with the parents, you know, we can go to an open show right down the road, pretty much every weekend spend less than a hundred dollars as far as entry fees and things. But if we want to go to brief shows and we want to go that route, then they need to expect, you know, I'm very clear and upfront with like, there's big costs with that. And we, you know, we're going to have to travel. Um, and that was some of the reason that lit me, lit a fire under me to work on starting a regional charter that would have active shows, um, in this area because there just wasn't that many shows in this area, there were only a few limited amounts. Yeah.

Tony Bottoms:

I think we're just kind of the same way here that, you know, everybody's heard me say this before, here in Oklahoma, the regional Appaloosa show only does, or excuse me, club only does one show per week or per year. And then Kansas. I think they do two or three. And then if you want to go a lot of shows, you gotta go all the way down to Texas. So yeah, I think I agree with you on that, that the regional clubs are really. The forefront of bringing in new members and, and enticing them to come in. So what kind of ideas you got? Frank? You got anything?

Frank Marley:

So I guess, I guess I'm in a really unique situation that like, I'm, I'm real urban, like I'm in Miami, like, like I can't, I I'm an Island of horse owners smack dab in the middle of, you know, uh, you know, Miami and Fort Lauderdale. So, um, I mean, I can literally look out my front door and see my kid's school across the street. So it's been a little different for me. Um, I've had to go out of my way to make sure that, that we, you know, we do the apps and it's our thing, but, um, probably the most interesting thing I've seen is that I've facilitated what I call, like I would like to see the app club do like what I would call a virtual membership. Because through all this COVID stuff I've had to facilitate. Um, my, my son makes sure everyone in his class knows that he has Appaloosas. So I've had to do virtual visits at our place here so that he can show his classmates his horses. And quite honestly, that's what gave me the idea was, you know, maybe the app club could facilitate virtual memberships to bring in a whole group of kids. And, and, and when I say urban, I mean, what, what, what everyone else is saying is absolutely right. This is an absolute luxury. I'm in a very affluent suburb of Miami. Okay. So I'm not, I'm not targeting kids that can't afford to do this, but the, the trainer in my son's barn will tell you at least a half dozen kids from his school called trying to figure out how they could go take lessons through all of this because of the little virtual farm visit that I gave him there. And I, I think if the app club would, would facilitate that using all of us as resources, right. Locally, you know, where we're, we're the ones facilitating these types of things, it would help the breed because you get one kid from one school, 30 miles from you who can afford it and want to do it.

Tony Bottoms:

That's a new member. Yeah. I like that. That's a great idea. I mean, if you could be getting into the schools and, you know, once a week, once a month doing some something virtual, even though it may be an urban school, like you said, then at least they're getting exposure. But then on the backside of that is if they are interested, where do they go? I mean, as one thing, I mean, it'd probably be great for, you know, Jeffrey, if he did something like that, you know, you got Nashville, not too far down the road from you. Uh, Knoxville, maybe, you know, I mean, I know you're closer Knoxville, you know, you Frank you're right there by Miami. That's huge, but I don't think you guys do any lessons. You know, you don't have a program, but is there a place I know you grew up in that area, riding and stuff like that. So is that barn that you grew up still available there, but,

Frank Marley:

uh, we're we're I started writing Dave and Kim more cleanup down here. Like they got a full bond, 24 seven, uh, because we only once. Right. But, you know, but they're always good that they've got two or three apps in there and, and they, they, they honor their Appaloosa roots and everybody knows that that's what got them started. So, you know, I'm, I'm a little breeder and I'd specifically do rain and horses, but I can tell the kids in the parents, Hey, you can go over there and take a couple lessons. And it turns into whatever it turns into. So, you know, luckily we do have the one resource down

Aaron Jackson:

here.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. And like, I know the barn that Heather used to teach at, you know, back when we lived in Virginia, just kind of same situation with the people that, you know, there in Miami, she kind of cleaning up, is she surrounded by, you know, houses and stuff like that now. And so, yeah, kind of same, same situation. So Tara and Gail, are you guys want to jump in here or are you still on or can you hear?

Heather Bottoms:

Um, I think just from listening to everyone that none of our, like. The club, the regional clubs, aren't very in touch with each other because listening from you guys down from the South, your point of view, like you said, you only have maybe one show in Tennessee for a breach. No. Whereas in New Jersey we have multiple shows that we can show we're very out of touch. I had no idea this was going on in the Southern half.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. You guys are lucky there in Jersey. You do have a very active regional clubs there. And then right up the road in Delaware, they have a very active club. Um, yeah, we don't have that here. You know, you go down in Texas, that's a different story. You know, Carla peacock down there, she does quite a bit of stuff, you know, but even Carla, you know, she's been talking about it that she's getting tired, you know, she's been doing it for awhile and. She kind of wants somebody to step in and kind of take over for, or at least help her out. She said, that's, that's a problem with a lot of the regional clubs is not, they can't get volunteers to help out. So a few, a handful of people are the ones doing all the work and you know, that gets tiring after a while and then they're getting tired. So, um, you know, that probably another thing kind of goes hand in hand with that is trying to get, get more people to volunteer and stuff like that. I was really wanting to get Gail you on. Can you hear, how about you, Erin?

Aaron Jackson:

Yeah.

Heather Bottoms:

Erin. You hear me?

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah, I can hear you now.

Jeffery Oaks:

So

Tony Bottoms:

do what tagging air.

Aaron Jackson:

Yeah. Was John on my tablet? Just wasn't getting a good signal signals of back to my phone, so,

Tony Bottoms:

okay.

Jeffery Oaks:

Um, so, you know, we were talking about youth kids and not getting volunteers. And so something I had actually just talked with my board here at the Appaloosa horse club, Tennessee, where we're trying to play in horse shows and volunteers are needed. It's something that, you know, we need people to man, the gate and scrubs for the judges and things of that nature, um, was I had, we've been talking about, and I discussed with them reaching out to the four H clubs within the vicinity of where we're going to host these horse shows and seeing if they had some older kids that wanted to come and get the opportunity and experience helping at a breech show. That also puts those kids in a, a place to see these Appaloosas and see the environment and what we're doing. Um, you know, I've talked with them also about trying to go around to different four H clubs in Tennessee and create some sort of PowerPoint with handouts that I can, I can take to these kids and put there for them to see. Um, because when I was growing up, another thing that I did was for a horse judging, um, and we went all over the place. We saw horses and all kinds of different barns and we're, and we had great opportunities. Um, and so that like reaching out to these other programs that foster you. And putting the Appaloosa's out there for them, but also giving them the opportunity to get involved without the necessity of an animal. Um, you know, you don't have to have a horse to come and help be a scrap at a horse show, but that puts you in the environment to learn what's going on and know what's going on and foster them maybe growing up and saying, you know what? I remember that time, I went to an app show and I helped with the judge and they were good people and those horses were beautiful. And then they go and think, now that I am an adult and can afford a horse, I think I'm going to get an app.

Gail Smith:

I know for,

Jeffery Oaks:

as I say, I know for like one of the things that, um, is also interesting to me is for the Virginia four H horse judging. Now this was early two thousands when I was in that program. Um, if you've made it to the state judging team, they went and judged at Arab nationals every year. They got to sit in and kind of mock judge at Arab nationals. That would, I mean, that, to me, wouldn't be a bad program to get some youth there at, you know, if they got to go, maybe do some help judge at our nationals or, you know, just getting them involved in some way,

Heather Bottoms:

the things that's amazing about the Arabian club. And I had said this in a meeting that I have been in Walden was whenever they come in for their show here in Tulsa, they advertise very hard for the public to come to their horse show and meet their horses. They actually have a meet day for people to come in at that show to meet these show horses. And so one of the things that I had suggested, and please, I'm not trying to tap a horn or anything, but chocolate is a Briar horse. And it means that he has appeal beyond just the Appaloosa horse club. We can reach out to children that collect model horses and Jen look at this horse and his color is very different. And we, I mean, my plan is she's going to be at youth nationals, come meet him, come see him, get your picture with him, put your hands on it. See what it's all about. Walk around the horse show, get excited. Why is the club not utilizing more readily the resources they have available to them? There are phenomenal horses. And I know I am not the only stallion owner, Aaron Jackson, and it would be willing to put their horses out there and let people see them and meet them and touch them and talk about them. If it meant that they were going to get excited. And, um, the whole idea of being able to hand somebody, a Briar horses, pretty cool. I mean, they get that horse in their hand and they get to look at it and they, and that they get to come to our show and watch the other ones, like you said, Jeffrey, it's going to get an imprint on them. You know, I met this horse, this horse show was so fantastic. I was there. Everybody was so welcoming. You don't have to own your own homes to do that too. And so why are we not bringing back stallion alley and, and making it something that's available to our membership to bring our stallions in for people to see, and then having that be an open day for people to come in and meet them and find out what the club is all about. I mean, little things like that would make it, I think, very welcoming to people.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. Cheryl Clark on Facebook. Made a comment about, you need to reach out to the open saddle club, open show, saddle clubs, where app blues owners take their horses promote on local level to people who are, who already ride and show apps and open classes, which I think that's kinda more your alley Frank, because you basically, you did the, what the fraternity with Appaloosa and, and after that it was all outside of Apple is right. So in your mind, what would have brought you back into the club to do more stuff in the club? If at the time, if there was something it would have done that? Well, you

Frank Marley:

know, w w w I will say this, um, I put on a, an NRHH show down in Tampa, and I guess Steve Taylor was the president at the time or the CEO. Yeah. Yeah, listen, they bent over backwards for me. He came all the way down here to Tampa and, you know, he made sure Frankie was in the app journal. Um, yeah, I, I can't really say he didn't do everything, but Tony, that was 10 years ago. And, and what I'm learning at least down here is I think Heather, I think you said it earlier, you know, or maybe it was Jeffery, these people got 10, 15 minute attention spans in a little screen. Right? So we got a, we got a tick talk there, their attention span with our great spot and horses so that we catch their attention. And I think what Cheryl said was made a lot of point, the adults are the ones with the money and you know, but they're, they're Tik TOK in the head too. Now we, we got, we got to figure how to get there. You know

Tony Bottoms:

what? I was going to say that too. If you made the comment about why we make it about the youth? Well, if we can get the youth to come in, their parents are going to come with them. And if we get the parents to come with them in, and this is more so I know we talked about the, I talked about this with a POA people. The nice thing about the POS is, you know, grandma used to ride and now she's taking the grandkids to show, then they're looking at a POA going, Oh, well, I might be able to do that because their ponies, you know, and their adults or ride ponies. So I think we can do the same thing with Appaloosas too. Um, you know, I don't know about the Appaloosas, uh, Heather and I raised, I mean, you know, some of the older grandma's prime might be scared of that, but from what you were telling me, Frank, about the reigners is that you guys liked the smaller ones. So that might be better for the adults too. Um, but kind of going off of what she said also about the saddle clubs. What about the people who do trail riding and distance. And, you know, I know the barrel racers, you know, they're all chasing the money, you know, that's for most of them it's offer more money, you know, offer more money at the classes and all that. But what about all those trail riders out there? Did it just do it for fun? Or what about all the, um, distance horse people and stuff like that? I mean, any ideas on that kind of stuff,

Heather Bottoms:

I'm certainly not drawn to rain on anybody's parade. No pun intended Aaron. Um, but, um, when, when will we join the Appaloosa horse bubble we decided to get Appaloosas. I was really excited, um, because when I was in Virginia and I showed hunters growing up, my first show horse was an Appaloosa. Um, and so I was very excited to get our app and to go out showing. And I can honestly say just in a three-year period, the bad Jace that was left in my mouth from showing and, and people that we encountered at horse shows. Now, I'm not saying they were all bad because that's not a true statement. I mean, there were plenty of brave people. Um, I think that what I had seen is our blood tends to cater to certain specific people and things, and they selected pick who it is that they want to focus on and what courses they want to focus on. And Frank, like you said, when we bought chocolatey and we took him to worlds the first year that we had Stephen Taylor made a point to come in and, um, to be there and to see him and to meet us and to meet him. And, and to invite people, you know, to come and watch. And I just find it's interesting, who is chosen by our club to be representatives of our breed and those that they overlooked. And I think that they overlook a lot. And so when most people open up the Appaloosa journal and see the same names, time and time and time again, what's the catalyst to want to be in it. I mean, it's like, it's their magazine. It's not the magazine of art club. It represents a few select people. Um, and if, if that's what we're showing is what our club represents is, Hey, we, we focus on this and these people only, why do you want to be a part of that? I would rather go someplace. That's more inclusive. Um, that includes all memberships. And so I get very frustrated because of that. And like this year I intentionally, um, put our stallion in other venues outside of Appaloosa. I just stepped outside of Appaloosa and started advertising him there and pursuing other aspects because it has to be more than the three or four people that are constantly representative. And so I'm not trying to be negative. So please, I apologize if I'm came off that way.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, you've fired up the people in the chat for sure. A lot of people are agreeing with you, Joanne. Garland's like, yeah, they focuses on the trainers in their barns and yeah, there's quite a few people or, or, or. Agreeing with you on it, but somebody or where was it? I lost it now. Uh, yeah. Uh, Cheryl was saying that they're more focused on business and we're all business and client, which is true. I think most of us are, you know, Jeffery's got a training bar and Frank breeder reign, Heather breeders, Aaron and painter breeders. Um, but they're the people decided to, to show up and have this conversation. So, but I agree, we do need to focus more on the non pros, the, the one horse to horse people. I mean, Heather said this before, those are the minnows that make up the backbone of the HVHC. I mean, that's, that's the truth,

Heather Bottoms:

right?

Tony Bottoms:

So. And that's why I'm trying to have these discussions too, is to try to get more people involved because there are some really great ideas out there. And I, you know, I'm not going to say I know everything cause I don't. I mean, yeah.

Aaron Jackson:

But

Heather Bottoms:

is it frustrating to hear that we tried this before, so we're not going to do it again because I, my personal opinion is no, in terms of business is just the beginning of a negotiation. Your no, just means how do I approach you to get a yes, that's what that means to me, it doesn't mean, Oh, well, that didn't work. I'm going to move on. Um, and, and I think if, if anybody in business does that, they don't stay in business very long. Um, if you're wanting money for your club and you want memberships, then you have to constantly think outside of the box, Just because you approach a great idea poorly, doesn't make it a poor idea. It means the approach was that, change it and go back. Um, so you need to, um, to realize that like, one of the things that I said when I taught writing lessons was we have seven. We have seven riding instructors here and we have 29 horses. If I put you in a class with an instructor that you don't like, come and tell me, there's another instructor, we'll put you in there. You won't hurt anybody's feelings. Not everybody gets along with everybody. And it's the same thing for the horses. I got 29 horses sitting in my disposal for you to have a riding lesson on. If you don't like the one that I put you on, tell me, we'll change it. You'll write another one. That doesn't mean you leave our program. It just means that you, you are allowed to have a voice you're allowed to express an opinion and. We'll move forward from that. And it's frustrating when you go to your club and you have an opinion and the response is we've already tried that thing.

Aaron Jackson:

Well, how, kind of, how I feel about it and what I've been kind of thinking about is if you want to bring in new people and you want to bring in more people and you really want to start, you've got to start grassroots. You got to start somewhere small one day punch too, to bring people in, you know, have fun events at a fun joke, and you don't have to have it at a big facility. You can have it at, you know, somebody that maybe somebody that's willing to take in that has an arena at their plates. Like we have a nice sized arena. We're just not ready yet to start doing these things. But we have been talking about it with local four H with, you know, The little clubs in our areas. Maybe we can get into this arena and do something promotional for the club. Maybe we can get sponsors from our regional club to help us run out of place. I mean, we got to, we had to spend money to get people to make money. I mean, that's kind of what we kind of need to do. Uh, just an idea, you know, like our facility, once we get everything straight and finished, moving in, we can have a one day fun show at our arena. You know, that ropings at our arena, you know, uh, it's just something somebody had to step up. They want to bring in people, you know, really be committed to bringing in people. And if you want to bring in people do something fun one day, you know, something small because if you go to these big shows and they all have these big horses, are there, people will get intimidated. Like I can't, I can't beat that horse, you know, so we need to start small to bring on more people to attract it. And a lot of clubs. They were already tried

Tony Bottoms:

that before, when I did that

Aaron Jackson:

for it's just a lot of work to get it done and just going to be willing to do the work, you know, step up and do it to get it done.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I think that was, you know, like I was saying before my light, um, I think it's mainly the, I think the regional clubs are the face of that blues club. And I think, you know, like Tara was saying, they're in Jersey, they have a, they have a very active Nash or regional club there and up in Delaware and stuff like that. I think that's part of it also, but a lot of people are in a chat or asking about, again, you know, we're talking about showing here's the fact of the matter. And I've said this before showing is what pays the bills for the PHC, the world show and the regional shows and all that. That's what pays the bills. I mean, they made. I don't know about last year, but in 2019 they made $300,000 off a showing. So that's, that's what keeps the lights on, you know, and while we may like to go out and trail ride and, and you got to distance, horse people and all that, and the chief Joe and all that, those don't really bring in a whole lot of money for the club. So then again, that goes back to the question that some people brought up of. Should they PHC continue to be in charge of the showing and just let the regional clubs do it or let somebody else do it or whatever, you know? Um,

Aaron Jackson:

so

Tony Bottoms:

Gail terror,

Gail Smith:

you guys have, okay. I've got a couple ideas, but, uh, I don't know if you can hear. Tell me, uh, several years ago, 10, 12 art regional club. Well, there were two regional clubs in the state. One went bankrupt and went to one and it was hard to make everything covered. So when new, while I was driving, I sat up, well, what if we could sell 30, more stalls or 20 more stalls that would pay for a judge? What we decided to do is go down to one judge and have an all breed show so that the saddle clubs could participate and it would be affordable. And we went in with that and we had the stalls filled, but we also did the one judge show was great. The first year we weren't sure it was going to work and it got better every year, but we did cover everybody's expenses. The people that switched from Appaloosas to quarters that I've talked to, the reason they switched was their grandkids wanted to show, and they don't see four judges on a weekend as four judges or five judges. They see it as a show. And that's how a lot of kids feel other than the professional lens that have been groomed to get points. Um, and that was a big deal when it started with, I mean, in 78, I went to the national show in billings Montana, and there were 104 bolt, baby Colts. There were no amateurs. You know, all of this stuff was just a whole different program that when people were showing, there was a show every weekend, it was a one judge. One day one, judge, the other, we had 80 classes, they were successful. We had a lot of entries and then. 80 the next, if we added a class, we took something out because it wasn't any fun to go to a bid thing. Okay. So then the other thing to get more stalls, we started a year-long challenge and the first couple years we just did Appaloosas and they would go in and this was set up for non-pro people that just wanted to take the horse and do it themselves. That's how it started up because the trainers all said, well, that will never work. Who the hell is going to do in handrail. I'm not going to do that. You can't have a halter horse lunge line. Okay. So we, I, you know, I went to the class and they all listened. They said, well, I don't think, I don't even know if we could do that. They said, well, here's the deal. I'll do it. I just want to know if you let us do it at the show. And the first year we had eight, we've tweaked it as we went, because it wasn't fair for yearling stud Colts to show separate. So we showed the month together the next year. Um, we had people, we had 20 at the show, 20 year lengths, 20 class or three classes. And they went into the open classes as well. Uh, so it's kind of like a futurity, but it was an activity for the people without training. Well then now the trainers have gotten involved in isn't as much fun, um, because these guys would go out and they'd walk the trail and we helped each other, but we made a walk. Once you have your year lanes captured, then you could move to the next level. And we had a water truck class for two year olds and we also, and then we did, you know, walk, track trail. And halter just for two year olds. And then after that, we went to an all breed challenge and we had 40 horses several years, I think, nowhere in to around 30 and then two other futurities of 50 50. And another one decided, you know what we should do, we should do that same thing because they were putting horses in the futurity or selling their babies. And then they had to wait until they were two to show. Well, then they said, you know, what we should do is we should, you know, it doesn't have to be real expensive. Let's let's do that. And so now we have two other people or clubs doing it. But the, the part of I'm bringing up is we kept it affordable so that people could do it like $150 to enter. And then we had added money and we put, I believe it was 1500 into each event. We paid a hundred dollars to each class. But if you had, if you had to show an all three and you had to, and then that's where the big money and payout went dunk, but it wasn't big money. The first place horse bet a thousand and it went down from there, but it was an overall class or all around class. And if I would have proposed that at that meeting and well, I did propose it at the annual meeting and everybody was, ah, well, I don't know. I said, well, just tell me if there's room at the show because I'll do it. And it worked, but the whole thing is you have to still have somebody that goes out and manages it and goes through it and does that type of thing. And we personally left it lower priced and maximum of a thousand to win so that they would do it themselves. So now we have a trainer, that's got six of them in the classes, six horses, and can't even give you a hundred dollars donation. You know, it's kind of one of those where, Oh, really, if you didn't, if, if you didn't have this to go to, you'd have six horses that weren't in your barn,

Aaron Jackson:

but, you know,

Tony Bottoms:

yeah. I think that's part of it is the, the kind of like what we were saying before that the cost of everything has gotten so expensive that, um, it was a little one and two horse people. You know, like you said, a big show. Yeah. They got four or five judges there, which is great for those people who are trying to qualify to go to world. But if you've got somebody new, they want to go to the shot, trying to qualify from world Bay. They just want to go show and kind of get yeah. Get in there and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, one or two judge show that

Gail Smith:

was created.

Tony Bottoms:

Be good. You know,

Heather Bottoms:

I agree

Gail Smith:

created, um, many years ago to show four judges or three judges or two on each day of the weekend, it was created. So you wouldn't have to go to so many shows because of the gas. And what I said was it was extremely successful because it took probably in each state, took every six shows off the board. Now we have four shows with, you know, or one show with four judges. And I said to kids, is that worth it? I mean, we're talking about getting youth involved to the, to the majority of the kids. Is it, do their parents think it's worth it to spend that kind of money to learn? Um, about the breed shows?

Heather Bottoms:

I think that we have to look outside of breaches and what works in other industries. And one of the biggest examples right now is what happened with the world equestrian center. When you, when you said stop listening to their members, and finally someone had enough money to say something about it. He built his own facility and asked in SBA to run it because you didn't want him only wanted him to do it their way, wanted to use his $10 million facility and only do things his way. And his response to that was while I built this for you, there are other organizations that will come in and run this show. And I think if we do not start looking outside of ourselves as to what is happening in the horse world, that's going to happen to us. The reason why in SBA in Denta are two of the largest show registries now in existence is because they are doing something right. They're listening to what people want. And they want local regional shows that were in conjunction with one another and that translate over and they don't get boggled down in all the garbage preference. Isn't shown to one or two people. There are youth classes, there are non-pro classes, they're professional classes there's even fraternities at these shows. I mean, it literally ticks all of the boxes that everyone is talking about. But again, going back to what I said earlier, Appaloosa is stuck in the rut of, we already asked that question. We already tried that and they cater to the sharks and ignore the minnows. And again, there are more minnows than there are sharks and minnows altogether have more money than the sharks. That's the sad part is they're so shortsighted. They don't realize that if you can get your mass quantity of people behind you, there's your money. But,

Gail Smith:

and we did,

Heather Bottoms:

we started the yearling challenge. We're

Gail Smith:

not buying the really expensive horses that, you know, summer world, some went onto the world, but for the most part. They were doing it themselves against other people that were doing it themselves. And we've lost some sense of trainers got involved just because, and it originally, it was a win-win for breeders and non pros beginners. They could, you know, and it didn't cost a lot of money. And if you enjoyed it now, here's what a lot of the, in it, there's no reason why somebody can't do that and feel like it make it a, a non-pro or whatever. They still have a trainer train it. Then they go learn how to hold onto it. But whatever. Uh, the thing about it is you're more inclusive. They feel included. And you know, when you just send your horse to the trainer and you don't get on it at all, and the trainer does it all for you. The trainers do walk trot canter, and their two year old, we added another class because the walk track can go for the, the non-pro and beginners. That's what it was originally supposed to be. And, uh, I mean, so what I'm saying is that if people feel included, it will grow and it didn't take a lot of money, but we did go down to one judge because Hey, during those times it was pretty sparse and we probably had $500 in our checkbook. We'd have a white elephant sale auction and, you know, come up with some stuff to buy that enough money for the judges basically. And now we carried 25 to 30,000 in our checkbook and it started with one judge show in working with people that would come. In an all breed situation, they announced the, the placings for all of them. And then placings for the apps. You have one group that all breeds were star. Their numbers started 200 are started at, or the upstart 100. So it wasn't like a huge, you got a big red number and I have a white number, you know, it was just different number in the hundreds. It isn't that hard to do, except that if it hasn't been done and there were enough of us still that remembered when we had those shows. When we had a three-day weekend, we had three shows and we had people drive from, you know, three, four hours for a two judge of one on each day. Um, it, it it's a lot. Some of us have, you know, the people into the, just getting in now don't even know about one judge shows that their point shows.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, that'd be nice. I had to drive two or three hours

Heather Bottoms:

in Virginia, in Virginia when I was

Gail Smith:

really, what would you do it for one judge?

Tony Bottoms:

No, no, I was joking with Heather. Go ahead, Heather. You were saying, um,

Heather Bottoms:

in Virginia, when, uh, when I used to show in Virginia and is probably this way for you where you are, um, all of the barns were so close together that they competed on top of one another. So rather than do that, what they started doing was, um, there was a, there there's a series that Virginia horse show association that started with three barns. And what these three barns decided to do was I'm going to host a show this month, Jeffrey, you host a show next month. And Frank, you host the one the month after that. And we're all going to tally our points and. You can win an award regionally there, but then you qualify to go to the state, which would be the equivalent to our world. Show the point being that's something Appaloosa could readily use a model that they could use. If regional clubs worked in conjunction with one another and held their own smaller, smaller venue than world, but that those kids could work towards, or even adults on that matter. That's something that's someplace for us to go. And that's something that we can do without

Gail Smith:

we used to

Heather Bottoms:

do that, having to push everything through Appaloosa all the time.

Gail Smith:

Well, and we used to have something similar to that when we had all these clubs there, I think there were five at one time in Minnesota and two in North Dakota and two in South Dakota. And everybody, every club would host one, um, and there was no bickering. So to speak as who's, you know, we're far enough away, we can put it on that date if we want to, you know, if, if you put it on our date, you're probably not going to have a successful show. Uh, because people now are coming for these different things. We're up to two judges now and a third one, you know, but we still have, even though they haven't all bought Appaloosas, there are some that have, and we've got, we're not worried about if the quarter horse wins the challenge and the app doesn't, we might have a, so to speak side-pocket for the highest placing app or breeder might take one and say, I'll give you an extra 500, if you win the, you know, the, the challenge and, you know, the, the ones that didn't like it. When it was proposed. Was it just always the big trainers? Yeah. Well,

Tony Bottoms:

the guy

Gail Smith:

did not like that idea.

Tony Bottoms:

You, the games already kind of get treated like the redheaded stepchild. Jeffrey's a conspirator up there. Uh, Joanne Garland was talking about Pinos. Heather mentioned Pinos and, um, you guys are doing a co Kosho with them. Is that what it is Jeff?

Jeffery Oaks:

So, yeah, we are. So, you know, miraculously, all this came together, I think during a meeting you had back during the election in September of last year. Um, Joanne and I got together and we got a couple of people with us and we just hit the ground running. We were like, we are going to start a charter and build something and. So in a pandemic, we have worked really hard in getting this charter. Um, but with that, I'm new. And I think all of our board members knew we were not going to come into 2021 with a ton of money. Um, so for us, we wanted to have shows like we wanted to prove to our membership that we were going to have something available. Um, and so we are co sanctioning with the Tennessee POA club, June 19th and 20th, and then with the volunteer state Pinto club in August. Um, and that's helping us to afford to have shows that have multiple judges. Um, and opportunity to get out there and kind of get a feeler out for like what a workout going to look like for people. Are we going to get showing up to our regional clubs shows? Um, and these clubs have been so generous and I'm so thankful for them reaching out and giving us the opportunity to kind of get, get in there as a new, uh, charter to get our feet wet and figure out where we're going to fall. Um, and so, I mean, they just have been totally accommodating. And I think that is something that we as our, our, our board at Appaloosa club of Tennessee,

Gail Smith:

um,

Jeffery Oaks:

has been. Like we've been so grateful because these people have took us under her wing. They've given us so much knowledge and worked with us and because they wanted to see us succeed. Um, and I think that, and, and co sanctioning to me is like the way to go, especially starting out, because it gives you the opportunity to have multiple, multiple breeds under one roof and have more people there and be able to afford these shows. I mean, um, but it's also tricky waters to navigate to

Tony Bottoms:

yeah. Like you and Gail, both saying, I think that is definitely the way for the shows to do better is to go co sanction. I mean, you're going to basically have to be open shows. You're going to have to combine with Pinos and POS and whoever else we can do it, which I think that's the way it should be anyhow, but ah, well, we're going on our go ahead.

Gail Smith:

I realized seven or eight years ago that even the actuals are bigger than the AQH shows shows at that time. And part of it was just the atmosphere. Um, if you, you know, you had your people with the extremely fancy stuff and it, they came back to the absent. Yeah. There's a few people that dress up. There's not a lot and you know, it's fun. But the whole thing is we still don't have a lot of youth, but there are fewer kids and fewer parents and longer places to drive. We used to, like I said, we had a show every weekend. If we wanted to go the whole summer. And then we got into the judge and the accent and spent as we, we offered classes or, you know, packages when we first started out. I figured out that if you, most of the kids are just going into classes. So we would go, if you go in three classes, we'll give you another one for free. And you know, it was like baby steps. Now we just have a flat pack, but it got them started. Uh, and I guess, you know, these are the things when we had national shows, they used to move around the country. Um, they showed outside and here on South Dakota. And I think that was when Sandy Campbell and, uh, Appaloosa queen. But I mean, it was that, that was such a marketing program. The region, local regionals bid it and help put it together. They weren't fancy shows all of them at the time. Billings was with the ran out of stalls and had to stall horses, you know, at the start here. Uh, it was right when star Wars were about and they called it star Wars. Um, it was just, you know, and then I don't know, it became more point shows and less or shows. And we didn't have technology. We did it all by hand, even the national shows and then we can't move it around because, you know, just with the technology, it's so hard to do it and I'm going well, but we had more entries, probably not as many classes because there wasn't a nonprofit from then, but there was an endurance race, right? Yeah.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. Leslie LeBlanc asked about the ASAP program to answer a question real quick. Hi, Leslie, by the way, um, the, a cap program is still in effect, but if you want to qualify for world, you have to be the top horse in whatever division you're in. And you don't qualify for world this year. You qualify for world next year, but I think they're changing that a little bit on certain divisions. So yeah, it does you no good. If you want to try to qualify to go to world this year and go to an open show, you wouldn't qualify, you would call apply to go to next year. If you were like the top hunt horse or top Rainer or top cutter or something like that. So, ah, well, let's go ahead and start wrapping up. Does anybody have any last insights and our, we talked a lot about showing. Um, I was kind of hoping some people from like trail and stuff like that would get on and maybe have some ideas on how better to, uh, attract people in that respect. Um,

Heather Bottoms:

well, Jeffrey, I want to tell you your enthusiasm is awesome and you're the kind of person that our club meets and. I love listening to everything that y'all are doing in Tennessee. It sounds fantastic. I would love to be a part of that, just so you know, you're, you're absolutely contagious.

Jeffery Oaks:

Well, thank you so much. And we welcome everybody. Um, and we want everybody, I mean, I really, I love this brain. Um, I have one app that I am personally, and I try to get everybody in Navarro to buy apps as much as I can. Um, because to me that they are the versatile breed and they have a personality, you can't beat, they're going to love you and Cheech and, you know, they're, they're just the best of the best. Um, And so I hope that if nothing else, uh, I promote this breed for the future and bring people back into it and work really hard. And I appreciate everything that each and every one of you guys have done to promote this breed and make it a better place for all of us to be.

Tony Bottoms:

Um, one thing I wanted to take a, uh, a little bit of a page from Pinot, or excuse me, not Pinos, POA, sorry. Um, you know, in talking to the people from POS, they'll get a kid in there and they'll start with the first class of the day. And they ride every class all the way to the end of the day.

Heather Bottoms:

And

Tony Bottoms:

I was like, what are our kids not doing? Why do our people not do that? And thank breath and matter is too expensive, but I mean, sorry, getting my age. There's no way you have to do that whole day

Gail Smith:

in North Dakota. They do that kids that are, they have a horse, they have their own horse. Yep. It's a family there for horses for kids. Uh, North Dakota is the second leading breeder or registration state in the United States too. And we have a lot less population, but we do have more rooms so that, you know, part of the problem with, um, sprawling cities, it takes two hours to get to a one. If you're living in the city and working in the city and in North Dakota, I mean, Fargo was biggest city and our place has set up eight miles from downtown park. Uh, it's yeah, we're right on the edge of it, but we're, we're over the railroad tracks and very private, but there's still rural and there's still way for kids and people to be involved with their horses. And in so many cases in like cities and you know, where there's, you have to have a trainer, you have to have board, you have to have this. I think it just gets to be a lot. It really does. They don't have the same connection of my horse. It's a horse that I'm riding and I love him to death and you know, and he's for sale, you know? And I mean, these kids, they started out with people, giving them a horse to start out with, and I always send them enough anonymously. Um, so that they can each, you know, their stalls are paid for all they have to do is pay for the, their entries because they work hard. These kids have to earn their own money to go with neighbors or selling little knit scarves or whatever these kids work. And I just really appreciate the fact that they do. And I, I really, you know, some of these questions we have, we're trying to get the, the results of what we had several, several years ago, but we have a whole different product, a whole different market audience, all different show. I mean, we're completely different. That's that is the big deal right now. Um, and people don't seem to think of a one judge show is big enough, or we had two on each day. Or a judge on each day and Robin and Roger Gallahan drove up for it cause they were chasing points. But the thing about it is it used to be the regional clubs nominated or got gave the invitation to the world show it didn't have anything to do with national points. They were for year end, et cetera. Um, the invitation came from the regional clubs and then the regional clubs like North Dakota will approve any regional show put on Minnesota, South Dakota, Montana, and Manitoba and Saskatchewan because whatever touches our skate it, any show in one of those is approved for your end points in the club. But now the, your end points of the club is know become less important too, because. It has nothing to do with nominating for the world show. And you take your five people.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, it's like on a scale. Um, Frank Jeffrey, Farrah, Aaron, Heather, anybody got any last words on anything? You guys were good ideas. Frank, do you guys doing over there or?

Heather Bottoms:

Um, I just wanted to, um, pitch in, um, I am a non-pro and I just show one horse all around. And, um, the big frustration for me when I noticed, um, Appaloosa would post a post, like, and people wouldn't like their decision. And instead of sticking with the greed and trying to change the breed for the better they would jump ship and they were like, Oh, I'm just going to go to this show then somewhere else.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. Yeah. I invited Tina Aaron's or Aaron's wife on and she said, Degas, they're on our tornado. Warning down our Sweetwater, Texas right now. Well, let's go ahead and wrap up. Like I said, if anybody has any last words, um, I know we talked a lot about showing and stuff like that, but I think, you know, Jeffery and Heather both y'all grew up in the four H community. It's kind of like where you guys started with your horses. I know that it's not really big here in Oklahoma, here in Oklahoma, it's more FFA, but somebody mentioned your Jeffery mission about the show in the judging. They do that at the thing here in Oklahoma, and they kinda do you talk about, they don't necessarily have to have a horse. They kind of do that with FFA here in Oklahoma is you don't necessarily have to have an animal, but you have. Other ways of getting accreditation and for lack of a better term, I can't remember what it's called. Um, but like you can do a little project. I know Heather had helped out one time, uh, when we lived down on a Wasser with the judge and, and stuff like that, but I've always thought that was a good idea, was getting in with the four H and all that, and going in and teaching them about the judge, you know, the FFA here in Oklahoma. Um, and that kind of stuff, kind of like what Frank was talking about doing the virtual.

Heather Bottoms:

I think that's, I think I pitched something similar to the glove, like at world show to see if we could get a trainer to wear a GOCO, the GoPro cam, um, while they're in the class so that people could, and they could live streaming so people could see what it would be like to be a competitor in the class. And that w that literally costs nothing more than a GoPro cam and somebody could ride an Appaloosa.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah, that'd be interesting. Frank, you put a GoPro Roman good job on franking chiller Bay. What it looks like to do the spins and stuff like that.

Heather Bottoms:

I want to watch that so badly.

Frank Marley:

Um, I'll, I'll throw my boy up there and it's been a few years and I've got a few pounds, so maybe

Heather Bottoms:

that would be awesome. Please do that.

Frank Marley:

I'll figure a way of getting it done for you and

Aaron Jackson:

Heather. No worries.

Heather Bottoms:

Awesome. Yeah,

Tony Bottoms:

that would definitely be interesting from the perspective as you've never done it before, what it would look like, same thing with the cut and that would probably be kind of cool to watch cutting from.

Heather Bottoms:

They do it for Gronk pre show jumpers. It's pretty cool to watch the girls. Oh yeah. It's awesome to watch.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I saw a picture today of somebody venting and it was them going over water job and just the distance from the water to the top of that jumping out horse over the top. I was like, could you imagine, I mean, if you've never done something like that, can you imagine what that looks like on top of that horse? You know, cause you're looking from that perspective, it looked like a good seven feet. You're on top of that horse that has another couple of feet on top of it

Heather Bottoms:

in their own, in their own different, right. I think you gotta be a certain kind of special. It could be an adventure.

Jeffery Oaks:

To see that on like a lot of different throw in like your, um, pleasure driving class, like lots of different classes and people could just tune into that and just see what it's, um, I know all the time I have kids who are like, I don't know what I want to do. And I'm like, okay, you need to like, figure out what discipline that you are interested in. So I know in what direction I'm taking you, do you want to ride a pleasure horse or do you want to do cross country following? Um, and so stuff like that I think is really great. Um, something that I really liked that AQR Jay did, and I don't know why we couldn't do something similar or maybe even talk with them and see what their. What their process is, is the judges per spray perspectives that they do on

Tony Bottoms:

YouTube. We've talked about that before

Jeffery Oaks:

is so cool. And you can put, you know, for Appaloosa stallions in halters and have a judge go through and talk about what they're seeing. And we, you know, different, um, instructors for the judging teams can use that as training tools for their four H horse judging kids. Um, it also gives people the perspective of what a judge is looking for, what confirmation we're looking for in those classes, how to handle that horse, what they're looking for from the exhibitor, all those things go into that. Um, cause I think just as much as anything, education is a big part of growing.

Heather Bottoms:

Yeah. I mean, I would love honestly, like I don't, I don't know a whole lot, Frank, I'll be the first person who tells you that I would love to watch. You with your stallion and tell us why he's as good as what he is doing, what he does, what it is to look for, because I don't know what I would be looking for, but I can tell you, I am interested in my husband knows this. I haven't said it over and over and over. I am totally interested, but I don't know where to start, what to look at, what the horse has to, you know, look, I can tell you chocolate, he's not going to do that, but I don't know how to look at another horse and say that it will. I mean, I know that what I'm growing in, my barn's not going to do it because I've got nothing under 16, one as a year lane sitting in my barn. So they're certainly not going to do it. So what, what is it that you look for? I mean, and if we could elicit Frank to put something together for his stallion, we put something together on chocolatey. Everybody to go along. And this is why this horse was successful in the arena. There it is Jeffrey, there's your, there's your, uh, education, but we also are, are showcasing the best of what our breed has to offer in, in the, in our breeding programs, in our stallions, in their accomplishments, how they'd been in and out of the Appaloosa venues and been successful, um, you know, thinking outside of the box like that, I think it would just be amazing. I think people really would tune in and, and, and want to watch, because I don't have the opportunity to go and, and see all of these things in person. I would, I want to drive a horse so badly Jeffrey, and I've never done that. So for somebody to have a go cam GoPro cam on and get to watch, that would be awesome. Stick a GoPro cam on one of the Appaloosa raised horses and let's all go to the racetrack. And that is, that would be so easy for the, for the club or even us to put that together and, and offer it to people, you know? Um, it would cost nothing for everybody to pool in and, and, and buy a GoPro cam. And Hey, I've got it this week, Jeffrey, I'm sending it to you. And when you're done with it, send it to Frank and Frank, when you're done with it, send it to the next person. And we all just do that and put it together and put it out there. I mean, the cost of that is literally a GoPro.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I think Tevis is getting ready to come up is coming up. So maybe we can talk. I just completely went blank on her name. She's won the Appaloosa distance championship several years, but I don't know if you guys have ever seen a picture of that was her going up over the top of that Hill and she's got it on the side of her trailer. Um, I wonder if we could talk her, I bet we could talk her into doing that. I, well, I appreciate it. We are on an hour and 15 minutes and I think we're good unless anybody has anything else that they want to talk about, then I think we'll call it a day. We'll kind of go from there.

Jeffery Oaks:

I just want to thank you guys for being a part of this. And I look forward to more discussion in the future. So

Tony Bottoms:

well, everybody watching now, you got to send in and tell us what to do next time. You know, what I do is we

Heather Bottoms:

we're going to be watching video. Not to see his GoPro version. That's what we're, that's what the next one is. And then Jeffrey you're on after that.

Tony Bottoms:

Thanks everybody for watching. It's go time with T St. Tommy boy, a 15 one hand, a PAC 2010 black leopard stallion by the miracle chip out of money. Bright moon, proudly owned by TC performance horses in Corrington Tennessee. Tommy will be standing at Jay Barez training with Jim is Sandy in Gainesville, Texas for the 2021 breeding season study is $1,000. Tommy is one of the last Allianz by the hall of fame stallion, the miracle chip as a 2020, the miracle chip is still in the top 10 of leading the nation in performance and halter sire. Tommy has proven his versatility and exposes wonderful temperament time. And again, by achieving the 2019 first, still new champion with numerous wins in rope, race, keyhole, race, ranch, trail ranch, riding ranch, raining branch rail judge heading and heeling, steer Dobbins and boxing reserve, world champion and rope race two Bronsman downs and performance rope. Race is senior judge healing, five ROMs and rope, race ranch, trail ranch, riding ranch, raining and ranch. Real pleasure. Derek Tory high point and road brace ranch training senior judge healing. Non-pro boxing. Top fives and ranch trail, top tans and rope, race ranch, riding ranch, raining, senior raining senior judge heading Tommy boy is five panel negative, please call TC performance horses at (541) 382-6652 to book a breeding to your mayor, looking for English and Western pleasure, ranch, Cal bred and game horses, debris. This remarkable stallion with a legacy to pass on. Well, there you go. I hope you enjoy that conversation. If you have anything to add or if you have any ideas hit me up on Facebook, let me know. Or you can email me Tony at Appaloosa media. Or you can email me@tonyatappaloosamedia.com. Thank you and have a happy day. Five bars of silver is a perfect Appaloosa stock horse stallion for your cow bread or rainy bread mayors. This buckskin near leopard is the last full from miss high-five and one of gay bar Silver's best set, both Luther HPAC hall of fame. Inductees Sterling is a champion and raining and roping, easy to handle and still being written. Sterling is a thinker. If you don't want a smart one, don't bring to him for more information, go to www.top-appleloses.com for more information owned by Liz kin K five. Bars of silver is five panels.