Dec. 25, 2020

JamieLynne Weiss - From Appaloosas to Hunters to NSBA: EP46

JamieLynne Weiss - From Appaloosas to Hunters to NSBA: EP46

JamieLynne Weiss started her horse show career as a child, riding Appaloosas with her sister. After college and after loosing her mother and her horse, JamieLynne took a break and then decided to get back into horse by going into straight hunters. Now that NSBA is sanctioning straight hunter, JamieLynne saw an opportunity to become reacquainted with a familiar organization.

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Transcript
Tony Bottoms:

Hey, how you doing? Welcome to the only podcast that talks about the app lose a horse and the people who love them. This is episode number 46. I am your host, Tony bottoms. And today we talked to Jamie Lynn Weiss. Jamie started off her horse career in Appaloosas. Then she moved to straight hunters. And she's getting ready to move to NSPA. So let's head over and talk to Jamie. But before we do that, I want to say that this episode is brought to you by Appaloosa media, Appaloosa media is a digital and podcast production company. If you've ever thought about starting your own podcast or, you know, somebody else that wants to start their own podcast. Now you can say, I know a guy, we can do everything from launching your podcast to hand walking you through how to start a podcast, to doing the full production of the podcast for you. And if you have a business, podcasting is a great marketing tool. And speaking of marketing tools, if you've seen the cool graphics that we use to promote this show, Or if you've seen the cool graphics over on the chocolate hee page, we can help you with that. Also, you can give me a call (918) 984-5157. You can email me at Appaloosa media one. That's the number one at g-mail dot com. Or you can hit me up on Facebook, Appaloosa media or Appaloosa podcast. And also if you've ever thought about breeding the chocolatey, right? Now's the time to do it. If you book and pay for your breeding, by the end of the year, you will get the 2020 price in 2021. The price is going up. I'm sure you've heard by now. Chocolatey is going to be a 20, 21 Briar horse, and he's been enrolled in several different charities. So if you've ever thought about doing it right now is the time to do it. We give multiple horse discounts, military, and first responder discounts, repeat customer and proven mayor discounts. We also do payment plans. So give Heather a call nine (118) 984-5166 or HK bottoms@yahoo.com. Hey Jamie, how are you doing?

JamieLynne Weiss:

I'm great. How are you doing?

Tony Bottoms:

I'm doing well. So go ahead and tell everybody who you are and give us a little bit of your background.

JamieLynne Weiss:

I'm female and white. I have been writing since 1982. Our first course was actually an Appaloosa. The reality is that since I was a child, I wanted to have a Hunter, but as it was before more of a family three and my sister wanted to ride Western and we had to make a compromise. So we just start with Appaloosas. I was nine years old at the time, and I was thrown out to lose those all through college. And then after college I took a break from horses, but during that time I had the opportunity to participate in nearly every class that the club offered. Um, I never made it into the side paddle class, but I actually had purchased the, the aspire to habit with saddle and rode my horse locally a few times in that class. But I really fell in love with Hunter under saddle, and that's where I ended up focusing the most centrally as other burning a national scampi and stuff reserved Nashville's high point with my horse, who wasn't training with the golf horns at that time.

Tony Bottoms:

Okay. And when was it that you quit riding? What year around that timeframe?

JamieLynne Weiss:

So my horse in Missouri, it was right after I graduated. College. So, uh, that would be 1994. And certainly after we won our campus and then my mother, my mother had cancer and unfortunately she passed away. So I had a pretty bad spring other than passing. I did get to show a 1995 and then my horse had the Embry shortly after my mother passed away. And when that happened, It really upset my world quite a bit. And I had to really get into survival mode, had this course, that meant a lot to me because I shared a lot of memories with my mom. So I wasn't willing to maybe consider retiring him and get something new. And I kept him very close. We kept him boarded and took care of him through his injury. And it was only when we finally had to make the difficult decisions that I said that I even considered. When I returned for horses or not, because it was such a devastating loss. I did actually take some time off because the nurse and I really wanted to make sure that, um, that I had enough money to make my return in the way that I wanted. I took a few years off and made the decision to come back to riding is wasteful.

Tony Bottoms:

Okay. And that's when you came back to riding straight hunters,

JamieLynne Weiss:

So it's funny as well. It was kind of an interesting here is why I was making the decision. Should I come back to Appaloosas wherever all my friends were, it was what I was familiar with or should I pursue hunters, which is what I had wanted to do. And sports are very different. And I made, made the decision to go to Hunter route, but it wasn't without putting a lot of thoughts into the decision. So a lot of people probably remember that back in 2009, Alice Ross created the eighth grade English class. And that was for really start looking at the Hunter under understaffed. And they're out sick period from 2009, till about 2012. When I made my pre answer while I wasn't actively showing I was really everything that happened and what decisions were being made through that period. And I had been really hopeful that there would be some big things just because I know that. Even though that takeaway saying I'm showing Appaloosa. I love Appaloosa. That facts are absolute signing. That the software, these are all pretty close because we all compete together and the NSPA shows and we know that they encourage patients to ask that this friend and we all follow it, whether we're selling an Appaloosa. Alameda. And I was disappointed because I really thought that taskforce before we addressed some of what I believe were underlying issues with the Hunter under South plastic. Yes. I chose to go. They used the, um, or UFH Bay route and uh

Tony Bottoms:

yeah. Yeah. I'm hoping everybody will kind of follow AQH a little bit here. Now because they just started, they're working hundred programs, hoping Apple follow along. So what were the big pros for you going straight hunters? What was it about the straight hunters that you liked more than doing the breed show Hunter under saddle?

JamieLynne Weiss:

Great hunters. When the judges are judging the horse, they are really frustrating. The overall ability and capability of the horse to be a Hunter by saying that, I mean, horse, we can jump a core system. I still have great manners, Spanish, the glass. I liked that, that different body type of course, sizes fit into the USA stay model. Right. No, it's not the need to have this course that you were hired to be the right height. And I noticed that in a lot better on the stock brief, but you're still not going to see if this seems through force generally things very well in the understand of what they worked on the rail. I liked the fact that the horses are really for their ability to open up their steps and to riders. Asked to have a significant amount of pilot, the horse for eight and make every distance and get every leaf change, do it on a perfect rhythm. And the hardest part is making it look boring. I know people say, Oh, the hunters are so boring to watch. And the riders aren't doing anything, but the riders they're actually doing an awful lot that you just don't see because part of the art of riding a hunters to make it look effortless. So what sometimes blows by somebody not really doing anything is actually a person doing several things at once. Just so quietly that you don't take notice. There is very, um, in comparison to looking at stuff free. You don't see people moving a lot. We don't see their legs, but it's very quiet and that's by design supposed to look like it's effortless. So it's, it's very complicated from that perspective. But I wonder about the Hunter on her side with classes that you really can't take. Any jury can say USA. So, and the judge isn't points to judge it based on it has said or how it was. Oh, another horse in the brain. Yes. All going the same pace, but that is fine. What the stop force say for themselves. And it fits down the line that at full speed answering monitor square foot stride. Is it a green ground? That's a Southern nice expression. Is it backing up? And they're going to look at the overall picture with a little bit different. Um, in the stock phrase, I would say that there's less of an emphasis on the horse. Backing up horses are still beautiful. They move right. That was just with their movement. They're just not moving on that fall foot side. And so there is a bigger emphasis on their headset. I would say in the doc brief. So when you see that the headsets are significantly lower, and if you were ever to take the high force and fight or run it through a fence or Gallup, it. Uh, I don't, we would really be in trouble because

Tony Bottoms:

he's

JamieLynne Weiss:

on the horses and you'd be sitting pretty deep and loping along and he would never make the step we'd end up with a couple of add or maybe a refusal because there would be no impulsive. So that's the big difference between the two and why I chose the hunters. I really just liked some more that for wet roadway and the fact that it really is formed to function. If the horse do well on the flat. Do you do well with the overflow class? Just because 95% are the jumping classes. All the flats.

Tony Bottoms:

Right, right. Yeah. I know when we went from, we started getting into breed, shows you, my wife would make the comment all the time. It's like everybody's sitting like they're setting in a Western saddle. They're setting deep in the saddle. She was taught more than George Morrison style where you're more forward because. You know, if you're going up to jump, you, can't be sitting back in the saddle. You gotta be more forward to go up over a jump. And I know that's one of the big things she used to talk about a lot. And then stride, like you were saying, she's used to a 12 foot stride and a lot of their breed show stuff. They're not pushing that 12 foot stride. They're not pushing their horses forward. So let's talk a little bit about some of the differences other than that. Now thank people have heard me say that quite a few times. Now we were talking offline a little bit about jump Heights. So talk about that a little bit.

JamieLynne Weiss:

So let's talk first about the Apple is the model. This is an app, was the podcast for spread to compare apples to what you find at USA today, which will be the model that NSPA is going to use for a sponsor. So if you were to go through an Apple, is the system, you would get one dumping effort for class. What I mean by that is if I'm showing an equity over fence, this class, I get one equity supply. I'm showing non-pro I throw over fences. Um, I didn't one don't put any effort, so that's a lot of pressure to put on any visitor, right. Because we really get, when you at a strictly Hunter show and it's not rated. So generally generally get for something efforts for one foot because they run in the division. So, what that means is that your classes brought it over the course of two days. If they're Hunter classes, equitation classes are always on in a single day. We'll move. We'll talk about equitation on just a minute, but it's for Hunter classes just generally have a flat and for dumping, they might also have a classic as a hat on, or don't buy in your division. One of your classes might be a handy. When a handy is really, especially in your skill as a writer to your horse handy, or that your horse can make the cider firms, that your horse farm gal, and really perform in a way that a Hunter might have performed out in the field. So getting one jumping effort for your Hunter class, you get four and then you're understandable. You will always dump before your under saddle class will happen. So you are required. The first will always find in that way. So that's just part of what's special about it and why it's such a bit more so that's great. And equitation division will generally run in one day and do their thing at first and a flat. Um, the difference that I put station is that at Annapolis, you would add a pattern from you'll perform the pattern. You will largely linking on how you execute that pattern at a Hunter. So you are judged on your equitation on the whale, and that is it that you really have to be solid against the other riders. You'll be asked in a way. And that is part of this testing it, most of the levels that we see competing at because there are separate metal that really have the more patterns festival. So if you like the pattern assessing, and that's Mary, you want to go, then you would pursue the metal route, which was where you execute a force system and people that are all back at the test. Very different style testing. And for you to an Appaloosa, you don't get to work at a French test. They actually read the test to you. You need to memorize or the jumpstart and execute the test based on your memory of where the dumps are. Very hard, a lot easier to look at a pattern before a class and possibly your screen or about it. You're in the ring without your crater and you need to be able to X factor you. It's very difficult,

Tony Bottoms:

kind of what we're used to when showing there Virginia, we shown under VHS, which is more of a local venue. I mean, it was statewide, but it was still more local is like the Hunter on her saddle. It's basically the horses being judged, equitation, the riders being judged, but each one would have. Two rounds of jumping, which could be anywhere from six to eight jumps. I think some, some of the lower level equitation, they might only have like four jumps, but like you said, equitation was on the rail with everybody else in the ring. There's no pattern you're on the rail being judged with everybody else in the rank. So, yeah, you really had to stand out to win. It's kind of cool to hear that you had the higher level, you, uh, you Seth and all that. Now you're talking about four rounds of jumping and then equitation, if you're doing an equitation. So they're kind of adding more on. I was wondering, I always thought. That moving up to Yusef. Maybe the jumps are just higher, but you're saying not only the jumps higher, but they're adding more rounds. So yeah, that's good in a way, because it gives you more rounds too. Beat out somebody else, but it also gives you more rounds to make a mistake

JamieLynne Weiss:

because the way that it works is that instead of having five points, like we have, there's the option where there'll be an English 5.0 Westbourne five point. There's a division champion. So when you finish with sufficient, as long as they were free or more in the division, and those courses all have to compete through the under saddle too. So you can't have people just dump the under saddle. That will sometimes happen them when people are doing these training rides, but so long as the classes make meaning they have three or more and they will report some shows will not do that for every station. It depends on the stove, but the hunters will always add that and see your point. You know, when you guys put the national show, the first step, that's it. You're done. Right. That's it. All it all the way there for us. But if you're showing, you know, in a Hunter show, that's one effort of LSU and you get a chance to do it again. And depending on the show, the number of dumping efforts, we get changes. When you start getting in doors, the rules change a little bit just because there's only one arena and it has to get all those classes cycle through it. But the general show you do get for dumping efforts for the hunters to fresh with you,

Tony Bottoms:

right? Okay. So let's go into, since I mentioned it, jump Heights, we're talking about, you know, an Appaloosa and I'm know, I know in SBA had jumpers and I've seen Appaloosa has a spot for jumpers, but I haven't seen anybody ever doing it. At a show. I mean, uh, you haven't been everywhere, but as far as like wool shows and stuff like that, but we're also talking about jump Heights and stuff like that. Can you explain that a little bit

JamieLynne Weiss:

was not going to tell him first first, because that's someone's class. We haven't really seen a lot of that at the Appaloosa national and world we're used to back in the eighties and even through the nineties, if you look at the handbook, it'll tell you that the fight for jumpers is pretty split. And that is when you start looking at USA aid, we measure everything that is just under a meter, which is your general height or a classic for classic composition. Plastics are important because you can win a little bit more money by plastic. And that's also where you start at that meter and getting into your Amazon sellers, et cetera. So is three foot six. So if you're already competing on an app and you're doing this jumper, that Apple is not that much about a week ago, USA and other things, that major hunters that are significantly different. So if you're a person who's been doing Hunter hat and you're interested in starting to complete. More of a Hunter rounds going from Sudan eight, though. It is a little bit safer at a hundred hat runs runs about two, two, three to I believe for now. So that's, that's your national height. And then if you look at your class or height for you for non pros, that is your national feeding sites. If you want to go to an endorser though, which is basically your series of larger nationals. So the rated high for three foot three and three foot fit, pretty big leap. Right? Right. We're throwing from two nine. I don't know that I've ever actually seen a jump set your eyes. I'll be honest. I'm pretty good at eyeballing the Heights, but you're on from six to three, three. So, and then you're working hunters. Aren't app was just those, it's a three foot height with a maximum of three foot, three, a little bit more in line with what you see at UFA stage shows, because we do have performance on Thurs that are at three foot three, three, three, six, four foot. So if you're already doing that with your horse or your sprayers already riding your horse three foot, um, in the working hunters, there's a place there now. Does it mean that they're in a place for a rider? What's nice about these shows is that there really is a height for everybody from Crossrail. No, all the way up through four foot four hunters, there there's a division. So if you're riding Appaloosas and you're showing at that height and master comfort spot, you're going to show free adult, which is sometimes called intermediate there's other names for it. But there is actually exclusive sufficient for writers for both. Silver is the, for your amateurs. It's just that they're soft bites. So that's more of an intermediate bite where you're showing Appaloosas expo Nashville.

Tony Bottoms:

So when did you start showing in SBA?

JamieLynne Weiss:

I actually haven't started showing NSPA they haven't. Started up enter divisions. Yes. Yes. That will be happening after January 1st. So just permit my horse, those registration or paperwork earlier this week and we will be showing hopefully in January.

Tony Bottoms:

Okay. I was thinking that maybe back when you showing Appaloosas you might've done some in SBA stuff, but so.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Right,

Tony Bottoms:

right. Okay. Okay. So this coming January will be your first time showing it in SBA, but you know who in SBA is unlike the law of the emails that we're being, getting here lately.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Yeah. I actually have a lot of familiarity with it. You know, I I've always thought it was pretty admirable. Their ability to run classes concurrently at the Appaloosas. Those are quarter horses, et cetera. You know, I think that it's pretty democratic organization. And what I mean by that is that I think they really listen to their members step and make decisions based on what the membership wants, which was really refreshing. We don't necessarily see that in USCF and USA today. That's why we're in this strange mess that we're in, where. You have people that are really attracted to what MSBA has to offer. So it's definitely an exciting time

Tony Bottoms:

as a member of Yusef and U S H J a, do you guys actually have voting rights? I, as members, can you vote for stuff or is it pretty much by dictatorship?

JamieLynne Weiss:

So it, you know, it's interesting. They survey us from time to time and I do appreciate that they send a lot of member surveys. But, you know, I don't get salad. I didn't get to vote for our Amazon member. For example, that was banished by the board. And they ended up voting. Our Amazon representative actually is the first one who was our competition. So that's a bit of a conflict of interest and they seem okay with the fact that they, that individual a lot of us upstairs. Really aren't okay with that. So we're really looking forward to the voting rights that we get.

Tony Bottoms:

I was reading, you know, a couple shows ago. I had Piper Clem on owns the plat horse and, uh, she and I were talking back and forth on that, on Facebook about, yeah, the, uh, the one person representing the amateurs. Really isn't an amateur rider. I guess she's a, she's a show manager. She's like a show manager. She's not an actual rider, but a lot of people were anticipating somebody else was going to get that vote and it ended up being this other person. And then I was reading online, somebody went in and asked the president of U S H J a about that. And I thought her answer was really. I don't know what the word is I'm looking for, but not satisfactory. I guess that's the best way

JamieLynne Weiss:

to, and we're not really none of us. I can't say that. I can't speak for everybody, but there's a large portion of us who don't feel like the answers we're getting are satisfactory. Um, we do feel like there's any ways. And when you ask a question, it seems like the answers are certainly defensive or flexible and easily answered. Yeah. A lot

Tony Bottoms:

of her answers it was cause it was a pretty long article. I read a lot of her answers were kind of dismissive, you know, for lack of a better. And I was laying, like I said, Piper, now we're kind of going back and forth about that. But the funny thing that I got a real laugh about with, with Piper was that they were talking about changing the amateur status. That if you were an influencer, that if you got money for being a social media influencer or. You know, if you had submitted, sponsored you or whatever, they were going to take you out of the amateur status. And I read that article and I shot her over message. I'm like, Hey look, you might not be an amateur anymore. I can't repeat what she said, but you know,

JamieLynne Weiss:

no, it was pretty ludicrous. I understand getting an outright problem fine with that. All right. When you're a social media influencer, you're not getting, you know, kind of found based on your writing ability opinion, based on your ability to be a horse or not. I'm a marketer by profession. I'm not trying to use social media for us or anything like that, but I would never want the opportunity to fund a sport that is already extremely responsive by being creative, online and working with social media. Yeah, certainly if you're just getting outright fostered, like some of the senior writers that we play, for example, he has a series of sponsors that there's nothing wrong with that, right? If you're running with sponsors to help fund your writing, there's nothing wrong with that either. But amateurs can't be that flat out sponsorship. That would be a violation. Right? One of the things that they were trying to count against me, I was ludicrous.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah, I think they came to their senses because they got a lot of email and got a lot of people calling them, telling them how silly it was, but, well, it was like Piper was saying, you know, she's a publisher. And they do publish books. And so she gets manuscripts from people all the time, you know, asking to look over your manuscripts and possibly publish it and all that. So technically she's getting free product, but it has no bearing on her ability of how well she can ride it. That's her living. She's a publisher. So yeah, I thought that was, I wonder. And this is just me kind of thinking, I wonder if that has something to do with WEC offering the amount of money that they're offering for these shows coming up in January, you know,

JamieLynne Weiss:

or some sort of reduce the amount of money. So as a compensation to us, And the things that are still there for the money. They're really nice, actually. So, um, you know, I, I don't quite understand what drove it. It was the sprinkles move. And so when you think about it, anybody who has a blog, a blog is a certain number of articles and viewership. We were offered the opportunity to have digital banners on anytime somebody clicks that banner, you're given a share of that, right? You're given money for clicks or you for make money in your sleep just by writing a blog. How should that make you professional? That's the level of. Uh, ludicrous that silliness that they were getting into, that they would start calling you a professional. If you wrote a review on a pair of boots that you bought, you know, um, and then of course they don't want you to get a fair tear of freeway and then write a review on that either. I think you're saying that there's still going to be a limit on the amount of money. I think it was $300 before, and now they're looking at maybe a thousand. Uh, for free products, which is fine, I'm fine with it. Not getting any higher because the reality is we all know who would end up getting the free stuff. It wouldn't benefit your average rider. It would those people who are well-known here. So all the time who probably don't need free products. Um, but I do think it was the strangest move by USA CA that I've seen alongside the other strange move they made was to require this nomination. And, uh, if you look at the sorority where, you know, you're buying a stock and you have to pay a certain amount for that slot, they have the international Hunter are reasons to basically a spot where you have to buy a spot and it's very expensive. So if you're an atmosphere rider with aspires variety of international and you happen to have the right horse, the right call. And it's late in the year and your horse is speaking and your trainer says you're ready. And he gets us once in a lifetime chance to do it like a thousand dollars, just to get the entry fee for this. Because by the time you pay all the late fees and it's something new that they did without asking any of us, how we feel about it and sound. I personally don't have any international Hunter Derby horse. I have no dog in the fight, but as a person watching this, I think it is one of the craziest things I've ever seen. And I'm just not sure why they keep doing this because the very body of the organization talking about sensitive. It's funny. Sometimes I hear Appaloosa people talk about how it's best that the shows are after remind them of your shows when your horse is in training $3,000 or so $2,100, just that we need to make it even more expensive, but just keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, I talked to Piper offline. I was telling her, I was like it's to me. It's interesting because a lot of the complaints that a lot of people have about Yusef or a lot of the complaints I hear about people about HPHC in it. I said, it's really funny how. A lot of the complaints are the same and they're two different governing bodies. You're in two different disciplines. And then in steps in SBA, filling that void in eliminating a lot of complaints, it's like, they're just like perfectly positioned. They've positioned themselves in the right spot at the right time.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Well, if I look at the way they manage things, right? If you look at the Nashville show, for example, and I hate to take this one, because I know it's a can of worms for a lot of staff, everything they can, but I can't get a permit. Right. I got the survey, I am a member and I took the survey and I got to choose what I thought in the survey was the best location. But I didn't get to actually vote for it. Right. So he gets feedback, but you have to just hope that your feedback is taken. So you want to see, they did send a survey this year. It was a Spanish survey. Actually. It was about whether you were going to show her. They don't seem to want to acknowledge that the NSPA actually does this. And Mary has made some Darcy has made the Starkey remarks about the NSPA that I thought were interesting. I don't think she realizes what the NSPF is and how powerful it is and how powerful it could be, that her membership and when it's dry. But. You know, I just, I think it's interesting when you look at and SBA where you get to vote, right. Again, it keeps coming back to the representation and you look at that board and how many different answers around that board and why it's so attractive to an atmosphere like me. To maybe make a thing. So this is a radical things to go from USA today, to NSBE and see a disrupter to the industry and an early adopter of something. But, you know, we believe in it. I think it's going to be great. And I'd love to be one of those people who's in, you know, at the very start so that I can say, Hey, I was one of our first people that was there to make this radical things through an industry that desperately needs disruptive.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I think they're, they're stepping in, in a good. Spot in a good niche. They feel a good place in both industries, really, you know, cause with you guys over on the Hunter side, you kind of have your local venues you can show at, and then it's. Your upper end. There's nothing kind of in between. So they kind of fill that void really well. I mean, if you want to be competitive at NSBE, obviously you can be competitive there's if you want to step up and be competitive, there are some competitive riders and some competitive horses, but if you just want to go there and have fun, there's a spot for you to do that too. You know what I mean? You don't have to be at the competitive level, so they feel a good, good boy. My wife, her comments here lately has been, they're a heck of a lot more minerals in the ocean than there are sharks. Once all the minerals figure that out, the sharks are going to be in trouble. It can, she speaks both as Yousef and of APA Etsy when she talks about that, because it seems like both organizations have a tendency to Decatur, to the bigger trainers and the bigger names and all that kind of stuff. And, and as VA doesn't do that, they it's like, you know, you're one person. I mean, that's who you are. I mean, they treat, they treat us really well, you know, with our stallion and all that kind of stuff, you know, when we're calling them up, asking them about asking them questions and all that, but we don't get any more weight than anybody else. So we are who we are. And that's it.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Do you think that the organization theaters to the upper echelon of the support, right? What the problem is is the people that are funding. It are not necessarily works out for us. And you're right. He has found a way to make their shows really entertaining and fun, not all just going right. There's things, there's other activities. And they've done a beautiful job. So to see why I see your point, you know, running these other organizations, they really, they really need to keep an eye out on the anesthesia. Not. Yeah, take it as this, this other organization that is, is a pawn in a game. As Mary said, right there, they were on in a, in a game. That's not what's happening at all. It's actually them stepping in to say, Hey, if they're not going to take care of your members, we will.

Tony Bottoms:

Right, right. Yeah. I think if they keep turning their back on them, they're going to get bit on that one. It would be much better. Much more to their interest to form a partnership with them and run alongside them. And a lot safer that way.

JamieLynne Weiss:

There's so many opportunities like think about your Virginia shows. They're on rate as both, right. There is an opportunity for NSPA to turn all of those into NSPA hundred,

Tony Bottoms:

right?

JamieLynne Weiss:

Because USA stay never bothered to take care of people filling at that level. They don't care. You're not rated you. Don't out. And then say, Hey, you know what? I think you do counts. And we're going to have a layer of, of those. We're going to call that as the Raiders or whatever they want to do. And they bring all of these Andres of those under the NSP umbrella and scale it so quickly scale. How are they going to scale the WAC model? Right. Well, if you did that, if you just did that one thing you would immediately. Um, membership of the entire nation that has been completely overlooked. I use that. That's how you disrupt an industry.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. And I think a lot of people, particularly on the Hunter side, don't really. I understand what NSBE is, as far as they don't put on shows themselves the only show that they put on themselves as their world show, they sanction shows. So that means like you just said, you got the VHS, a shows, all those VSA shows. Also the show manager has to do is call up in SBA and go look. We would like for you to sanction some classes in the show, he doesn't even have to be the whole show. He could just be certain classes. And then next thing he knows you starting seeing SBA besides certain classes. And guess what? Those are the classes that are going to probably be the most full, because one times there's money in to win, you know, so, and that always makes it a nice day. If you can.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Now, now you're a writer and you're in first-hand. Yeah. And you may never get to see firsthand. You might not have for fun or the wherewithal. But now you are in a running for NSPs points on a national scale, or you can be competitive and you can have an opportunity to get that year under award, which was never, ever yet in USA. Right? Isn't really, it's a nice way to level the playing field and gives people an opportunity to be part of something bigger. They're really feeling like they're being overlooked on that national scale. And they want to first to say, there really is an opportunity here for the NSPA start working with these different store managers and really scale up quickly because once it's done, it'll be impossible to river.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to Stephanie, Linda she's the executive director over the NSPA to saying that there. Membership is up over 400% right now. And they have gotten several phone calls from show managers, asking how they can have their show sanctioned. And I know that one of their shows is kind of a big deal. I was like, yeah, that's. This might be fun to watch.

JamieLynne Weiss:

I think it's pretty great. I mean, I guess for popcorn really never seen in our life before. Right. And I really think that this is an opportunity for the little guy to finally have a win. Now I will say it's not that it's that much closer, expensive, because when you look at the classes that at wet. Oh, college divisions are $25 plus, you know, not significant savings, but you have to look at the fact that facility's incredible. So that same amount of money I would be showing here at the Georgia international horse park, which is where the 94, it's a nice facility, but it is all outdoors. And with one cupboard, because you know, at the Hunter shows, you're always outdoors. Reporting is a bit catchy. The stalls. It was the same spells from 1996 are nice. It's just not. So when you look at that, it's a little bit less expensive for us to significantly nicer and safer facility. Yeah. First I want to spend my horse there

Tony Bottoms:

going to an average show, showing up facilities like you would show at world shows. So, I mean, yeah, awesome facilities. I actually want to back up a little bit, you made a comment about people saying that Hunter shows are boring, man. They haven't been to some of the Hunter shows up until you get down at the more local level where kids are just learning how to ride or just learning how to, you know, go through a course of jumps. That can get really interesting. Sometimes it's like, sometimes you just want to hide your head. You just want to cover your eyes and just hope for the best.

JamieLynne Weiss:

I I'm sure I'm not with that person as well. I know I've got some interesting pictures of me falling off of a phone. He had a style where people, and you can hear a little bit more, but at the local. Now I'll tell you why that is. So at the local shows, what you see are a lot of silver in preparing our horses and the trainers on the ground. When you get to the greatest, both your horse has probably already found it sufficient under your Spanish. It has dumped all of this already. Your trainer has pulled your horse. Your worst. I know that you want to stay. Stay has been really giving NSDA a hard time about the court rules. You know, at a USA stage now they have not banned calming substances, beta magnesium, because we can't ask for them. So people to give their horses call me, Hey, I've seen it. Um, we know they do it. And so it's kind of unfair to pick on the NSPA when they're hiding their own problems that they have, where people are using these products. I won't name the product people because they actually sponsored from time to time. Some of the shows with a little bit strange prohibited use calming substances, but yeah, those horses are perfectly prepped. Every time they go into the ring. And when you go to a local show, they're not perfectly fresh. The child has. Been riding it around her, a pretty crazy warm offering. Right. Those are insane. And then they go into this class or this agitated animal and they do their best. So it does make riders out of people. If you can get through that crazy . And when you can get your horse around without your trainer prepping it, you will need a better rider in the long run than a rider who wrote up about on their personal, they press scores and stick it around because the horse was ready to go. You might not have the best go record, but you'll be a good rider. And you'll be a late rider. By the time you move up the ranks,

Tony Bottoms:

I'm just making that comment somebody other day that I thought Hunter's made. Better writers because of that fact, a lot of those kids. Have come up, basically making their own horse. They're the ones out there getting thrown off and dumped and put on the ground and all that kind of stuff. They're, they're the ones, you know, like you said, at the local level, they're the ones that they groom that horse for the show. They're the ones out there, warming it up, getting it ready to go, and then putting it going in the ring and then having to deal with it after they've come out of the ring, you know, making sure it is drinking water is cooled down and. All that kind of stuff. So yeah, those kids definitely spend a lot more time with their horses, learning everything out. You know, I was, I was making that comment, uh, just the other day to somebody as like, that's one thing grow, you know, in Virginia, you see all the time we used to call them barn, rats, know all the kids running around the barn, you know, they're there every day, all day long, just constantly run around. You know, you got your working students that are. Grabbing horses out of field and tacking horses up and grooming them and all that kind of stuff for the riding lessons. And there's just always kids running around. You don't see that a whole lot at Western trainer barns, you know, at the stock show or excuse me at the stock breeds. You just don't see that, you know, it's usually, if you send a horse to a trainer, it's like, ah, we'll see you once a week or whatever. You know what I'm saying? And that's, that's about it, you know, maybe once a month. And, you know, it's like you show up at a show and the trainer walks a horse out, you get on the horse and you go in the ring and then as soon as you're done, the trainer tastes it that you don't see that a whole lot on the end English side. I mean, yeah. You get up to the higher level. Sure. I'm sure. Or you do, but you know, my experience was that a lot of those kids are out there. They're putting in a lot of work. To be able to show, to be, you know, be able to even afford, to have a horse, to buy a horse, to be able to make it to that show level and then to make it to you, Seth. Well, yeah, most of those kids they've put time into to get there. They've put a lot of time in the saddle to get there. I mean, my wife can tell you all kinds of story about broken noses and broken bones and all that. And that was her, you know, that wasn't dresser. Yeah. It Def we'll see that. That's where I think in SBA stepping in, I think once we get to the point where we've got both sides of the fence, In the barns at the same time, that's when I think it's going to get real exciting, because then you're going to have the English people in the barn, right beside the Western people. And then they're going to start talking and, you know, like somebody, an English, person's going to look over and see a Western pleasure person grooming their horse and they're going to go, Hey, how did you do that? And then they're going to see something. They're going to see something on the English side at Western pleasure. Person's gonna see something on the English side and they're going to go, how did you do that? And then I think that's where the big synergies is going to happen is you, we give it a year or two. We got all these people in the same barn, and now they're starting to talk in there. You're going to get all this. And there's not a lot of crossover and some stuff. And it, it really should, there really should be, you know what I'm saying? It's, it's about the horses and about the riders and all that, but how a Western pleasure person can get that horse looking like a shiny penny, you know, I think once they get that synergy going and learning. From each other. I think that's when it's going to be, get real interesting.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Oh, I agree. I think that once the cross-pollination happens, you know, I think you're going to hear some myths. Like you can't body clip a quarter horse because they look ugly. We bought a clip hunters, every show they don't look ugly. There's there's tricks. Right. And people start. Sharing information back and forth then, um, helping each other out. And I think we'll see that instead of demonizing each other or doing things differently, which you see a lot, you hear a lot too, right? There's a lot of stigmas about both sides of the, of the Western world versus the Hunter world. And I think once you bring everybody together, what you're going to find is that. Whether you're riding a Western pleasure horse or a ranch riding horse for a Hunter, everybody's in it for the same reason. We all just love horses. And we like the people who love horses. Right. And so why can't we all just get along? I really think we can. And I really think that the anesthesia is going to be the one association that really pulls everybody together and accomplishes that.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah, I agree. All right. Well, I think that's pretty much all I had. Is there anything that you can think of that you wanted to cover that we might've missed?

JamieLynne Weiss:

Oh, let me think. I don't think so. I mean, it's been great talking to you. Actually. I felt like were best buds. There was one other thing that we had talked about earlier. I'm wondering if you wanted to just quickly talk about it and I know it's getting late, but we were talking about the horse. She blew for details that want a to six class down. I think we should talk about that horse really quick. Cause I looked at his record and he did get a first out of 11, which is pretty impressive.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to Glenn Hiebert about him and I was using him as an example. Cause he's, I think for this year, if I remember right. And when he went down to Wellington, that was his debut in a Yusef class. But in all reality, he's been showing for three years. I mean, he's one. World championships and Hunter Hunter, or excuse me, Hunter and hand and reserves and Hunter and hand and Dunson use stuff and all that. So he's got about three years worth of showing, but probably less than a year under saddle. I was trying to use him as an example for all the Hunter, people that look, you can have an Appaloosa that is competitive in the Yusef ring, and what's good about him or what. You prize unusual for a lot of hunters is that he's already got all these show miles underneath him. So going to shows like nothing for him, I've been here, I've done that. It's a different place. You know, it looks a little bit different, but so he's probably a lot calmer, you know, going to show instead of, you know, you know, his debut show, not being all freaked out and all that kind of stuff. But like I said, I was using him as an example. You can't have now he doesn't look like Annapolis. He doesn't show characteristics, but he is. I mean, obviously he from out of spotlight blue boy, but they can have, we can have competitive Appaloosa there. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there showing you sat level they're riding. Appaloosas just like you have plenty of people who were riding a penny quarter horses. I know there's a lot of thoroughbreds out there because we used to see a lot of, you know, we're in Virginia. That was a common thing. You know, go get one off the track that maybe got hurt on the track, but can still do jumpers or still do hunters and kind of give him, give him a little time to come down off the track and then start working and put some weight on them and fatten them up and turn them into nice hunters. You know? So what, was there something in particular you want to talk to about him? You

JamieLynne Weiss:

know what I like about that horse? Cause it w I did see some film on that particular horse. And the horse was gorgeous. You know, one thing that you cannot discredit the ACLU separators and their hunters, you cannot discredit the value they placed on movement. And, you know, they're, they're breeding the horse to win a class. I'll be generally a Hunter under saddle class is scored primarily on movement. And when you lose, look at that horse just glide around the course. It is a two six class. He's a young horse, that's the appropriate height. But when you watch that horse, if you watch that horse between the jumps, what you see is a proper working Hunter. So anybody that's curious about what should an Appaloosa look like as it's going over a course of chumps, whether it's competing at an Appaloosa show or edited a SBA show or a USA show, that horse is a classic example of a nice Hunter gorgeous horse. And it's, it's nice to see an Appaloosa competing, you know, whether it has spots or not, doesn't matter. It's been said that majority of it is perse horses were solid anyway. Right? So I'm not a snob about color because the horses are bred, you know, and they have a pedigree there. They're not a color breed. I don't feel like, I feel like it's an actual breed. So he is a solid horse, but. Uh, the, the horse is gorgeous and just, you know, a nice example to your point that Apple is says can be competitive. And, you know, we hear trainers sometimes say, well, this one isn't and I make it, it's not going to make it in the pen. It's too quick legged. Right. It doesn't have the hoc split, whatever, but it doesn't mean that the horse doesn't have career. And if we're open-minded and we take a look at the talent that the horse has and how nice it's moving. And maybe think a little bit more broadly that the horse might be able to jump. It might, might have it as blood lines. Like this horse was bred to do this. There might be another Avenue for that horse versus the Appaloosa a hundred under saddle class, which is a bit restrictive, but it's nice to see. Beautiful. Well-bred Appaloosa's going down to Wellington and competing at a show is, you know, as nice as the ESB holiday show that this horse was at. And when first out of 11 horses, that's an accomplishment and we shall be excited about that, you know, as, as Appaloosa enthusiasts that it is possible.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. That's what I was like. It'd be nice if he had spots on them. Cause then everybody could visually see. That it was an Appaloosa and not be told that there was an Appaloosa, but it's still like a very good example of. Look, you Bree quality. You can be competitive. Well, I think that's about it. I can't think of anything else. Thank you for bringing that up. I know, like I said, I was talking to Glenn about that and I thought that he was a very good example and a recent example

JamieLynne Weiss:

end of November. Yeah. Couple weeks ago.

Tony Bottoms:

Well, thank you. Ma'am I appreciate it. I've enjoyed the conversation and yeah, we'll probably have, have you back on too. Talk a little bit more about the Western dressage, because that's definitely something that has piqued my interest and something I'd like to look at. And it's something you don't hear a lot of people talking about. Oh, let me mention right here at the very end for everybody who doesn't know. Kristin rider is your sister Christian rider. Who's on the board of directors for territory. One. I am. Fond of Chris and I talked to her on occasion on and off. I know I talked, she's been on the show here. I actually need to get her back on. Cause when she was on, before we really got to do is talk about VOD stuff and I didn't really get a chance to talk to her about, you know, cause she's a big on the chief Joseph trail ride and all that kind of stuff. And I know she's really been pushing forward, a lot of new rule changes and, and trying to get. Some changes for those eight cat people who are doing the West, the, excuse me, the chief Joseph trail and people who just want to go out and trail ride and all that kind of stuff. So I know she's really pushing on that and working on that a lot. And then she was supposed to be, she was in charge of, and she may still be, I don't know, but she was in charge of trying to get. Sponsorship and funding together for the national shows in Indy. She

JamieLynne Weiss:

was you're right. I don't know if she's still working on that

Tony Bottoms:

or yeah. Well, I mean, I would think they would still be doing that. It's just, you know, man, they still need sponsorship and funding, but we just don't know where it's going to be here. It's

JamieLynne Weiss:

a little bit strange to not know, but you know, I do appreciate Ken keeping everybody updated. You know, I think that that's nice to at least be transparent, even if you're saying a, I don't know. But I just wanted to let you know. I don't know. I appreciate that. I think that's great. Not necessarily the news. We all want to hear, you know, I don't even have an Appaloosa to show, but I'm dying to know where it's going to be. Right.

Tony Bottoms:

I will say this again. And I said this back when they were talking about moving out of forwards again. I personally, and this is just my personal opinion, you know, it benefits me and I'll admit that it'd benefit. I hope it's either in Tulsa, Oklahoma city, but like I said, that's benefiting me. So I would be great if it was, I think they're both good venues, but if they find something better, like I know, uh, we went up to Iowa for. Breeders halted for charity a couple of years ago. That is an outstanding venue up there. But somebody told me that during the time of nationals, it's not available because it's only available to horses for certain months out of the year. And I forgot who it was that told me that, but I mean,

JamieLynne Weiss:

the COVID we'll change that for the next year because a lot of the things are, you know, a lot of venues that are work, maybe closed venues in the summer can have people now. So they might be accepting of livestock where things are generally more open I'm with you. I hope it's Oklahoma as well. I really, I prefer Oklahoma study. I had great runs with my horse there. That's where I had my national win. But I really liked the city. I liked the venue and I liked the fact that it's a little bit more centrally located than Fort worth, which is a bit far South for people to be there. Isn't really something in the heart of the heart of the nation that's available to your point. And so when you start looking at what's accessible, it just feels like it's Tulsa or Oklahoma city is the right place for it to be

Tony Bottoms:

my argument. Well, in his half jokingly, half, not. I'm like, look, if you split up the United States from North, South East or West, Tulsa is almost dead center.

JamieLynne Weiss:

It really is. I majored in geography. I a hundred percent agree with you. If you take Alaska out of the

Tony Bottoms:

equation, it

JamieLynne Weiss:

pretty much is

Tony Bottoms:

right. Who's I was a joker. I was talking to Kevin Greiner and I'm like, look, tell us what's right. Dead center. That's where it should be. And he's like, yeah. Okay.

JamieLynne Weiss:

I mean, I liked it. They're being transparent. Right. I think I've seen a lot of complaining on Facebook about the board. I think that if you're on the board, you're in a position that nobody's ever going to a hundred percent like you. Right. And I think people just try to do their best, but what I've really appreciated is that at least they're willing to share with us their methodology when they choose a certain direction. Right. Same with Ken. Like, Hey, you might not like my decisions. And if you vote me off, that's fine. And you even mentioned, he's not a fan of term limits. I appreciate that. He's being this transparent with us and honest, like who doesn't want that in a leader. And we have to expect that that our leaders are. And I, from time to time, make what we think are mistakes. You know, they're not infallible, but I like that they're at least being open about it. And I think that given the crazy year we've had and all the challenges, I think they're truly trying their best, you know, to come to some type of resolution so that everybody can move forward in 2020.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I did see before people making decisions that seemed to be in their best interest. Nah, what was in the club's best interest. And like I said, all those people I've mentioned and probably a few more that I should mention, seem to make decisions based on what they feel is best for the club as a whole, not what is best for them personally. And I, in any case, I think that's always going to move the club board, even if it's right, even if it's right or wrong decisions right or wrong, if they're doing what they think is best for the club, it's a win for everybody. Instead of versus people making decisions, what was best for them in their pocket book, which is. When I think used to see a lot now. Well, yeah, I'll stick with a lot. I was going to retract a lot statement, but then banking back. There were a few times where it's like, it seemed like almost every time it was a decision made. It was like, who's benefiting who's who's profiting off of this.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Yeah. There was definitely a lot of that. Right. And I really do believe that, you know, whether we agree with some of the decisions or not, I really do think that the decisions are, are actually coming from a place of good. And the, you know, they're definitely trying, I, I give them a lot of credit. I wouldn't want the job.

Tony Bottoms:

Right, right. Right. Me and my wife were talking about that one day. She's like, why don't you run for the board? I'm like, I don't think I want the job. I'll be honest with you.

JamieLynne Weiss:

Well, it's Chino. I never knew that you basically have to attend meetings in the middle of your Workday. And I have a full time job. My sister does too. You do. How do you attend a meeting at four in the afternoon when. You have a meeting for your primary job. Do you tell your employer?

Tony Bottoms:

Hey, I'm sorry.

JamieLynne Weiss:

My, my horse clubs having a meeting. Yeah. You know, I give these folks a lot of credit that the amount of time that they spend, I don't think people realize this. Isn't just some hobby. It is a job on top of a job and they really spend a lot of time and. You know, I do think that if you're going to spend that amount of time when you could be making money for yourself, right. Because all these people on the board, they have businesses to run. Right. They have jobs and I really, I thank them for all the time they put in because. I don't think until you really talk to a board member or in my case have one in your family where you hear about the time, suck that it is, you don't appreciate what they're going through and just how much work it is to really run it.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah. I was talking to Ken, I guess, was right before world and he's like, I'm putting in. 50 60 hours a week on this. He's like, I'm supposed to be retired. I'm supposed to be working this much.

JamieLynne Weiss:

No doubt. That's true because I've, you know, I've heard similar things from my sister, as she said, she's not the president of the club or anything, but you know, she she's on the board and she has responsibilities and it's, it's crazy. She'll say, Hey, I worked all weekend on it.

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah, she's done some good work here lately. I mean, she's pushed through. Well, no, I don't know if pushes her at word, but she's done a lot of work on a cap stuff that they've done a lot of good forward progress on that. And I know that she's probably she's on there. She's not the only one, but I know that that's something that is near and dear to her heart. So I'm, sir, she's a pretty good driving force behind it while there let you go. Again, thank you. I appreciate it. And good luck. Let us know how, how it is. I've seen pictures. I actually got to drive by there a couple of weeks ago. I didn't get to go in. I just kind of drove by and took pictures as that drove by. So it was like Thursday or Friday right before Tom powers started. So obviously the parking lot was starting to get full, but I will. Thank you. Ma'am I appreciate it. You guys have a good one?

JamieLynne Weiss:

Thank you. You too. It's been a great chatting with you this evening.

Tony Bottoms:

Bye bye.

JamieLynne Weiss:

There

Tony Bottoms:

you go. That was Jamie Lynn Weiss. I had a great conversation with Jamie. We talked a lot before we started recording and we talked a lot after I stopped recording. So there's obviously more material there that we can talk about, but I didn't want to make it a two hour long show. So I had to cut it off someplace, right. We'll probably have her back on. She's getting ready to go to WEC the world of question centered down Ocala in January for the straight Hunter shows that they're doing down there. We'll probably check back in with her later on in the year to see how that went. She's also doing the Western dressage and we'll probably check back in with her about that. See how that's going. But like I said, I had a great conversation. She's very knowledgeable about the hunters and stuff outside of the stock breeds. She does have her roots in Appaloosa. That's where her love and her passion fashion is. So maybe we can pull her back over here and get her start riding hunters over on our side right now, if you like to show, as soon as you start hearing the music, tap your phone and hit that subscribe button. And while you're there, go ahead and share the show with a friend, hit the share button and share it on Facebook or email it directly to somebody that you know, that would like the show. And if you get value from the show, please consider going to buy me a coffee.com/appaloosa and buy me a virtual coffee. Every dollar we get helps us to promote the Appaloosa horse, Bree to people that might not have heard the show. Thank you, and have a happy day.