Oct. 31, 2022

Spotted Sport Horses in the UK with Bianca Seward-Morris


I talk with Bianca Seward-Morris about her breeding program for Spotted Sport Horses in the UK. Bianca has just started her breeding program with a 1/2 Warmblood and 1/2 Appaloosa Stallion.

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Appaloosa: More Than Just a Color Breed. Is a podcast dedicated to showing the world the versatility and adaptability of the Appaloosa horse, as well as the people devoted to preserving and enhancing this outstanding breed.
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Transcript
Intro:

Welcome to Appaloosa More than Just a Color Breed, a podcast dedicated to showing the world the versatility and adaptability of the Appaloosa horse, as well as the people devoted to enhancing and preserving this outstanding breed.

Promo:

Hey, this is Tony, host of the Appaloosa Podcast. Before we get started, I wanna let you know if you can't watch this entire video, you can always go to Appaloosa podcast.com. And there you can find our previous videos, our podcasts, our social media links, everything you need to know about the Appaloosa Podcast. And while you're there, go ahead and follow the podcast and it'll alert you every time we have a new one that comes out. So let's go ahead and get into the show.

Tony Bottoms:

Hey everybody. How you doing? Welcome to Appaloosa podcast, and today we have a guest from a little bit farther than any of the guests we've had before. We're having Bianca on. And go ahead and say , Hi, Bianca. Now tell us where you're from and kind of give us a little bit of your background.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

so I'm based in Cambridgeshare here in the uk and I breed and show jump part-breed, Appaloosa.

Tony Bottoms:

Part-breed Now, when you say part-breed what is most of the breeding in cross with

Bianca Seward-Morris:

50% warm blood and 50% Appaloosa.

Tony Bottoms:

Okay, so, which here in the United States is a cross that's not accepted by the Appaloosa a horse club, but has seemed to be getting more popular. Especially with the hunters and jumpers which is the reason why I contacted you. I saw you on Instagram going over fences, and I'm like, Oh, wait a minute. That horse has spots on a spot. . So go. But go ahead. I guess give us your background a little bit. How'd you get into showing jumpers and Hunter?

Bianca Seward-Morris:

So basically I've been show jumping since I was well tiny. I started affiliated show jumping when I was seven. And I have obviously show dumped for that time just on warm bloods like everybody else does. And I was contacted by a local guy. Who asked me if I could meet him at a show and just jump some of his horses for him locally. That's something I sort of do from time to time and had no idea what the horses were. Didn't really ask. Just turned up to the show and he took the ramp down on his truck and he had two appers in there, , which was quite a surprise to me. I don't think I'd actually ever seen any Appaloosa before, but definitely not show jumping. So we tend to use them for showing in the UK a lot. So I was a bit dubious about whether they would actually jump , but I got on both them that day and absolutely just loved them. Their temperaments were fantastic and they really did jump. So started bit of, a love of them for me. and I sort of carried on doing that for him. We traveled around a bit and met shows, and I jumped the Appaloosa for him and his, he asked me if I wanted to use his stallion on my warm blood mare. So his are all, his, are all pure red appers or registered with all the societies. And I had a really nice mare that I did want Bria fall from. So I went ahead and did that. Didn't know if it was gonna be spotted or not, cuz obviously my mare was solid and his stallion's leopard spot. But I said, in the ideal world, if I could wish beyond being a healthy fo, I would love to have bread. A spotted well any spotted really, but a leopard spotted

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah,

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Which is exactly what I got so I could carry on my own breeding with him. So he's five now and he's got his first two folds due next year to two of my jump in mirrors. So they will actually be more warm blood than Appaloosa, but, As we sort of breed down the light and we're gonna keep breeding the Appaloosa back in as well as the warm blood. So it just happens that obviously those two Mays have retired. Or actually one of them is actually half aloosa, half worn blood. So she'll have something with a bit more Appaloosa and hopefully response cuz she's spotted as well.

Tony Bottoms:

Right. Yeah. That's one of the, obviously, like I was saying, one of the breeds, it's not one cross, it's not accepted by the APHC, the American Appaloosa, which I don't really. I don't know if I really get that one. I mean, it would make a good sport horse, you know, like you said, spotted sport horse and the colors becoming more, more common. But I got a little bit of a story for you, and I know people watching this have seen this, have heard this story before. One of my wife's first horse, the first horse that she bought for herself was an Appaloosa Thoroughbred Cross, and she took him out and started showing him on the east. and the way they do it on the east coast is when in your division you have two jumping rounds and one flat round, and the jumping rounds hold more weight than the flat does. So if you go in there and you win the two jumping rounds, you can bomb the flat and still win the division. Well, the good thing about her Appaloosa is he was phenomenal over a. She said he moved like a plow horse on the flat, but he was phenomenal over the fence. So she could go in there, win the two jump classes, and then still win the division, you know? And she was like, you know, it is what it is. You just, you take where you can. But that was, And then the other thing too is the flat class is more judged. You know, the jump, I mean, the jumping class is judged. On the flat, there's a little bit more politics involved in it, and in, in that time frame, Appaloosa or anything with color was not really well liked in on, in the hunt seat community or in the hunter community. And so she's like, he had to be phenomenal over defenses to be able to win to even place, you know? So she's like, that's the kind of the give and take. But nowadays it seems that color's becoming much more accepted here in the United States with the hunters. I don't know if it's the same with you guys or.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

To be honest, I see people looking for show dumpers that actually say not spotted in their wanted apps. And I think part of me thinks, Wow, that's you know, that's interesting that they really don't want. Sort of an Appaloosa, but the other part of me thinks that five years ago, they wouldn't have even, it wouldn't have even occurred to them that they'd be offered something with spots. So it's kinda good that I feel like we're sort of getting it out there a bit that they'd even think that somebody might say, I've got one with

Tony Bottoms:

Right. Yeah, I didn't think about that. But it's like we were talking about with jumpers, it's a little bit different. It's just you're not judged. It's whether you can go clean, round and if you can do it the fastest. So you know, there's no judgment in that. But I don't know. I know here in the United States there. Definitely a stereotype about Appaloosa, which is they're slow, They have no tails. They have no mains, which obviously that's, you know, the older foundation ones. Yeah, that's probably true. But I mean, if you looked at our Colts main and tell you would definitely not believe that cuz I mean, it's kind of a bear to braid band that man cuz it's like thick, you know, So, but so, Now you got into Appaloosas kind of just per chance, but then you've carried that on. How many horses do now?

Bianca Seward-Morris:

So we have nine Appaloosas out of 17 horses and obviously two, two more Appaloosas due next year. So the Appaloosa definitely overtaking the Pure War Bloods

Tony Bottoms:

Well, now you were saying, so you said your boy's four and five. Now you should say five. Right?

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah. The one I

Tony Bottoms:

So that means you just start breeding him this year. So you wait until he is five before you started breeding him.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah, I wanted to get him going under saddle first because I, well, I was actually gonna get him out, jump in first, but he had a bit of an accident in the field and got an injury in the summer. So I decided that actually whilst he was. Of work. Then he may as well cover a couple of me and start a bit earlier, but I did really wanna get him some ring experience first because like you said, people don't really take the Appaloosa that seriously. And I wanted them to look at him and think, Oh yeah, he does jump. So my best horse, he, I've jumped a meter, 50 classes on him, and he's an apple, so across warm blood and he. Still people say, Yeah, but he is a fluke. But he's actually not a fluke because he's bred from the US stallion the subtle showboat and show boy

Tony Bottoms:

Okay

Bianca Seward-Morris:

who were obviously prolific, show jumpers, and he just happened to. Stop off in the UK and end up stuck here. So thank God he did, cuz if not, I wouldn't have all these But yeah, you know he really jumped, his siah really jumped and we've. you know between Bob's offspring and mine you know, there's plenty of proof that it's not a fluke that's just a line that really does dump, but I still have a lot of people saying, Oh, sorry, saying, you know, Oh yeah, but he's a fluke. It's because he is part warm blood. It's his warm blood breeding. So I kind of put out there on social media that actually, you know, there's a whole bunch of them

Tony Bottoms:

right

Bianca Seward-Morris:

they can all

Tony Bottoms:

Well, we were just, My wife and I were just talking about there's a well known stallion. He's deceased now here in the Appaloosa. Called Spot My Blue Boy, and he was a leopard app and he was, like I said, really well known here within a p hc. But a lot of his offspring are not, they're not spotted. They, you know, they're solids, but there, there are a few. There are, but they're over on the East Coast in the hunter ring . But people don't realize that they're aplos because they don't have color, you know? So, but it, like I said, it's interesting how people are, Like for us in the Appaloosa community, you could have take a nice horse and no matter what it is, but let's say it's, you know a trail horse, and it's well, well broken in the Appaloosa community, you know, anywhere. Say three to $5,000. Right? You could pipe, but you take it outside Appaloosa community. And we had one in Virginia, in Lexington, Virginia that sold for over a hundred thousand dollars and very well broke horse. I mean, had done it all with the trail horse and all that kind of stuff. And so it's just weird on that respect, you know? And you know, I don't. I'm trying to think of how pricing is over there for you guys too. And I know my wife was saying that, you know, she's been over there and she was like, Y'all's backyard horses beat our show horses most of the time here, you know

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Okay,

Tony Bottoms:

she's like, there. There you'll see, you'll be driving down the road and you'll see as warm blood or warm chloral setting out in the field. And you know, the father just used it for a plow and then the kids out there doing a, you know, little backyard show or whatever. Jumping well, what we would consider three foot fences. So I guess that'd be what A meter. A meter for you guys? Three. Yeah. Yeah. Three foot. Yeah, that's about right.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah, it , so

Tony Bottoms:

So, and she's like, it's just so ingrained in y'all's culture out there and, you know, you have the warm bloods and they've come from that area for so long. Even what you guys would consider trash horses. Us over here are like, Whoa, wait a minute now. Hold on. Cause they're pretty nice, you know? But I guess that's the same thing with our thoroughbreds for us. You know, you guys get a lot of our thoroughbreds, you know, like they send 'em over there. But for us, a lot of 'em aren't all that nice of thoroughbreds, you know what I'm saying? So I don't, I guess it's kind of that back and forth, but, So have you looked into the American Appaloosaloosa community? Or you just kind of been doing your own thing?

Bianca Seward-Morris:

I have a little bit. But I know that a lot of people that I've spoken to do not like me crossing them with warm bloods , which I think I've found over here it's a, it's pretty split, sort of half the people are like, you know, you're breeding really nice horses. And my stallion is actually registered with the British Appaloosa Society and his offspring can be registered with them as well. And, you know, they've sort of said it's not, he's not strictly allowed to sort of be licensed and promoted in the same way that a fulled Appaloosa would, but they recognize the fact that these are nice. Quality horse. And I found a lot of the American people that I've sort of seen on Facebook are quite upset about the warm blood part But you know, some people have been quite like, you know, like you said if, they're nice

Tony Bottoms:

right.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

a good job, then

Tony Bottoms:

Well, like I know here on the East Coast, you know, with the hunters and jumpers, they're not so worried about papers. I mean, they just want to know he is a well bred horse and he can do, its. And they're not so much worried about papers. So it that, in that respect, it wouldn't matter a whole lot. It's, are you giving, Does it have, can it do its job and does it look the way that they want it to look? Where we worry about papers is here, you know, with inside the breed registry and stuff like that. Again, I don't really understand why that's not an accepted cross, but you know, it is what it is, I guess. but I know here, I think it's the WP Spotted, I think was the stallion. I can't, it's the WP line is kind of the same way. They're a Appaloosa warm blood cross. It's pretty popular here in the United States. I think that's the line. I may be wrong. Somebody will probably correct me if I am, but You know, I just, like I said, I saw you on Instagram and I saw that you were, you know, obviously going over fences. So, you know, with my wife, we were, we did that for many years. You know, I met my wife in Virginia and that's what you were doing, and we were there for, I don't know how many, 10, 15 years. And then, you know, we moved back out here. We just basically recently within the. 10 years got involved in the stock breed, but she's always loved Appaloosas and, but hunters are really where she came from. That's what she loves to do. And so we're like, All right, how do we marry the two? Because I'm gonna tell you what the hunter, what they call here with, which would be hunter under saddles, what they call it. is not the same as hunters. It's the old, the, what we've noticed is there's a club here called Nsba, National Snapple Bit Association, and they brought in what they call working hunters. And what they did is they got up with usf, which is the United States Sequestering Foundation, I think is what it is that is a governing body for the hunters and jump. and those two got together and they brought into working hunters. And so all the judges are trained on what to look for hunters. So they are basically hunter judges, but now they're in the breed shows and it, so they're starting to kind of get that little crossover a little bit. And my wife's, well, first time we saw that, my wife's like, That's what I want to do, , because it was. I mean, you're using a stock course, you know it's an Appaloosa or quarter horse or a Pinto, and they're doing actual working hunters. So it's more accustomed to what she was used to. You know you're more forward in your seat, you know, you're not, you know, the stock shows have a tendency to sit back in their seat a little bit more, and she's used to be, you know, riding for, She grew up. Being taught by George Morris. I mean, that's where she grew up at, you know, So, but yeah, I was trying to find a way of co kind of comparing and contrasting the US versus the uk. And I'm kind of, I'm kind of struggling a little bit on it , because I know you guys just do things different, you know, especially with your horses. And with the hunters and stuff like that, I know that things are just different. So I'm trying to figure out how to bring that out to kinda shed light on it so people here kind of a good idea of it, and particularly with Appaloosa, but how can people find you on Instagram?

Bianca Seward-Morris:

So I have my, own Instagram, which is Bianca Stewart Morris, and I have a separate one for the Appaloosas because some people don't really care about the warm bloods most on my own one which is Kabe spotted Sports Horses. And that is just solely dedicated to the spotted

Tony Bottoms:

right.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

or the bread ones? Some of them. Well, we've got one that's solid actually. The rest of them are all spotty, but.

Tony Bottoms:

Okay, and so what have you noticed? So have you guys been do, well? You said you got two babies coming up, so you really don't know how it's working out for you quite yet.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah, so we've br we've bred a few of them ourselves and we've bought a few as foals from a stud that's a few hours south of us. And they've been breeding them for quite a long time. But sort of quite, it is still kind of different to our breeding, but still sort of warm bloods, bit of thoroughbred and

Tony Bottoms:

So now do, I'm sorry, go ahead. So so we'll get it because we, my wife and I used to breed. So do you guys live cover or do you guys, I mean obviously if you got your stud there, You're probably live covering.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah, so it depends on the mayor quite a lot of the time. So we've got an older mayor who only really seems to take very well live cover which is why I decided to use our stallion this year whilst he was out of work because I thought she takes so much better live cover anyway, so I may as well just use him. And, but we used to actually, All AI until the first oo we bred. He said, Oh, I normally just do natural cover. And I said, You know, that's fine. I've got no problem with that. So it's sort of I don't really like doing live cover when they've got folds at foot. Just cuz it makes me

Tony Bottoms:

right, right. right

Bianca Seward-Morris:

But yeah, so our stallion's actually going dummy training. The season starts again next year, so that we can do either, but he's very polite, covering in hand. So he pro I probably won't mind so much with him with the folds at foot because obviously I know him because I've read him. So I'll probably live cover with him then anyway, but at least then I'll have the option. And a lot of people have asked to use him next year. Some of them want natural cover and some of them don't. So I thought, well, at least if he's dummy trained, then we've kind of got all options open and we can do whichever really. Cause there's not really any other stallions in the UK like him. I think there's one in Europe but over here there's not really anything like him. So had quite a few inquiries for people. Who, you know you can use, Oh, if you wanna use a show dump in warm blood stallion there's just no way to narrow it down. You know, there's

Tony Bottoms:

right. right. right

Bianca Seward-Morris:

them that you can use. So I think people are sort of looking around

Tony Bottoms:

And

Bianca Seward-Morris:

to, think, well, you know, I could narrow it down with a bit of

Tony Bottoms:

Then it's, Do you wanna go Oldenburg? Do you wanna go Hanna? Very. Do you

Bianca Seward-Morris:

yeah

Tony Bottoms:

Well I'd find it interesting because we've always done ai because for us, it's just more convenient. But, you know, you're, I you're in the uk so it's a much smaller footprint geo. Geographically, you know, here in the United States, you know, we're pretty big. So if we got somebody out in California wanting our, you know, to breed to our stallion, or if we, you know, as a, like we did with our first breeding we ever did, a stallion that we were interested in was from California. You know, that's a lot of expense if you're gonna take your mayor out there. I mean, that gets expensive. So the AI was definitely a better route. And I know there's some people that, that have a preference one over the other. Yeah I'm, probably like you would be, I would be nervous at a live cover. Cuz man, there's a lot of things that could go wrong there. You know The mare may not like to stallion, you know, and you know, if she starts kicking, then now we got a whole. Bunch of problems, you know, So Yeah.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah.

Tony Bottoms:

but,

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah. I wasn't sure how I was gonna find it because I've sent my mayors away for life cover, but I hadn't done it myself until this year, and I thought, Oh, and a couple of people said The, key is to make sure that the mayor is ready, because then she won't kick and there won't be a drama and it'll all be fine. And I was, Oh, I don't know. But because I bred him, he's like, You know when I'm handling him he, practically reads my mind. I don't really ever have to, you know, do too much. He pretty much just follows me around ....So I thought okay, we'll give it a try and see. The mayor had been live covered two years before a different stud. So I thought she knows what to expect and actually it wa it was so much easier than I thought it was gonna be, and it was all quite calm. Like

Tony Bottoms:

Right, right. right.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Oh, okay. This is right. Actually, we can probably do some more

Tony Bottoms:

Yeah, I've, cuz I've seen a mare out in the field, what she's done to gelding before, and it's like, eh, I don't know about this but All right. Well, I appreciate it and like I said, say what your Instagram is again so people can find you.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

It's could be spotted sports

Tony Bottoms:

Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And you know, hopefully we can have you on some more, maybe. Generate some questions for some people and they can come back on and ask questions or whatever, you know, cuz it's always cool. Kind of get to see how you guys do it a little bit different than us and you know, maybe we can get some good ideas from you. And I like the sport horse idea, especially for the people who are, you know, in hunters and jumpers and stuff like that, that, I mean, may not necessarily want a thoroughbred crossed with an Appaloosa, but you know, when they, something with a little bit of bone that can get up over a fence and stuff like that. So, but again, thanks. Appreciate it.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

No. Thanks for

Tony Bottoms:

Alright. Have a good.

Bianca Seward-Morris:

Yeah, you too. Thank you